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SNOKE REVEALED!!!!

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by ITG, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    well we don't know what he knows or what else he might have asked for.
    we only know that in that particular moment he needs a confidant to help him deal with Snoke and that doesn't strike me as an appeal to Sithiness so much as an appeal for general support: if there's power in the Dark, that's what he's asking for.

    grandpa was powerful and he had his blast together--and that's what Ren wishes/wants.
    whether it's "Sith" or not is likely secondary if even any part of the consideration.
     
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  2. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    @Joanna you're right, it does sound pretty absurd. I am familiar with all the sources you have stated and no. Snoke is not Brendol. Period.

    To my mind there is an interesting connection with the Commandant’s Cadets/ Project Harvester and Snoke's interest in Armitage, that's a direction worth exploring.

    Anyway I brought your key points (list of similarities) over from your page

    "They both witnessed the rise and fall The Galatic Empire

    They both have had “apprentices” (The Knights of Ren, The Commandant’s Cadets, and possibly force sensitives in Project Harvester)

    Both have blue eyes and gray or graying hair.

    The TFA novel says that Snoke is “humanoid but not human”, but with all of his scars and deformities, he could be a human.

    They are both extremely influential leaders who gain fierce loyalties from their followers

    Snoke has no known past, Brendol Hux has no known present or future."
     
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  3. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    But Kylo doesn't ask for general-support, he's struggling with specifics.... like feeling the call to the LIGHT side of the force.... what Kylo wants is what he asked for, to see the power of the darkness... to finish what DARTH Vader started.

    It was sentiment that brought the Empire down, a moment of weakness.... Kylo is a Darth Vader-fanboy.
    He isn't praying to Anakin's robes.

    I think that Vader being a Dark Lord of the Sith means everything to Kylo.
     
  4. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    What I find interesting about Snoke was the high praise he had for Vader.

    In the TFA novel, Snoke calls him "Lord Vader" and tells Kylo how Vader lead an "exemplary life". I actually believe Snoke is pissed that Vader is dead, and that Vader was the true Skywalker he wanted by his side to lead the First Order. However, after Vader's weakness and subsequent destruction, I think Snoke is moulding Kylo into what he believes Vader should have become.

    I also think that Snoke and Kylo's relationship is heavily dependent upon Vader, and Snoke realises the only way he can keep a tight bond with his apprentice is by encouraging him to become like his grandfather. Well, that plus calling Kylo "Master".

    I sense a lot of fear in Snoke. Not only of Luke, but Kylo as well.
     
    #84 Fuzzball, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  5. Devizz

    Devizz Rebel General

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    Sith are gone after RotJ, the whole Star Wars saga is about Anakin Skywalker bringing balance to the force and destroying the true Sith. So yeah, having Sith Lords around would make no sense at all.
     
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  6. Joanna

    Joanna Clone

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    Even in the TFA visual dictionary it says "the sith's demise". They're gone. Forever. Plus, bringing them back would be repetative - I feel like they can do much cooler work with the villains than bring back something that's already been done.
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I don't understand if Snoke is Hux father, why then wouldn't he just call himself Supreme Leader Hux. I would substantiate his Hux succession and the families exclusive claim to the title of Supreme Leader. And why then does General Hux himself lack any form of force sensitivity. I also find the Rax theory unlike, but still a bit more plausible. Why would Rax call himself Emperor Rax and not just Supreme Leader Snoke? Why the sudden change of semantics?

    My theory is:
    1. Under Rax's leadership, the empire reforms itself as the "The First Order": indeed, that is their wish, to recreate the first order initiated by Emperor Palpatine.
    2. The Empire retreats to the unknown regions to find the source/origins of the Dark Side. They believe that the Dark Side was one of the fundamental elements which made the Empire, the first order, what it was and what made it succesful. Snoke's dialogue with Kylo in the TFA novelization on the Darth Vader moment of empathy at the end of ROTJ most certainly points in this direction.
    3. The source/origins of evil is discovered and a creature who calls himself Snoke. He alligns himself with the first order as a guide to the secrets and philosophy of Darkside, but betrays Emperor Rax and takes the title of emperor/supreme leader for himself. The Knights of Ren, allied to Snoke for undisclosed reasons, have facilitated Snoke's takeover by infiltrating and manipulating the ranks of the Empire/First Order's military. Hux' father is one of the prime instigators of the Rebellion, hence he and his son become the chief commanders of the First Order's military.
    4. If Snoke is actually Plagueis, he will then adapt his original plan, which was executed by his apprentice Palpatine in the prequel and original trilogies, but which the latter did not bring to fruition in a satisfactory manner. Palpatine and Snoke's aim was to cheat death: the Skywalkers come into play.
     
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  8. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    I agree 100%. Plus the idea of a sith wasnt really explored outside of the EU. From the movies we know almost nothing about them...
    Imo they should come up with new stuff they can explore better.
     
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  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It's about THE SKYWALEKRS V .
     
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  10. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i guess i see him asking his grandfather for help with the Dark side (in general--and by that i mean, he's asking for help, period), and not asking a Sith Lord specifically because he's a Sith and because there's some special Sith Darksideness that he's keen on.
    Light is not the de facto binary of Sith, it's the binary of plain ol' Dark.
    maybe we'll find out Ren has some secret desire in his heart to be Sith just like Vader, who knows?
    he just doesn't show any deliberate and obvious predilection for it in TFA or in the novel adaptation.

    and don't forget too, the First Order is trying to avoid the mistakes of the Empire and for all we know Snoke considers its Sith rule to have been a mistake, ultimately. no rule of two: perhaps no Vader attempting to coax his son to join him in toppling Palpatine. i dunno. we don't have enough information yet. all we know for certain is that there are no Sith yet in the ST.
     
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  11. Shork

    Shork Rebel Official

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    Lets first wait for Episode VIII - I bet there will be reveals that count much more. :-D
     
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  12. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Vader is inherently Sith, Snoke's belief about their failure isn't shared by Kylo Ren.... Anakin Skywalker has nothing to offer a student of the dark side.
    SC20160801-210855-1.jpg
    The ghost of Darth Vader obviously has appeared to him at least once before. The Sith might be extinct to some but their shadow still looms.
    Zannah said they are eternal, Disney dropped a thermal detonator on that quote and here we are. Kylo isn't praying to the Jedi he is related to, he's praying to the Sith Lord. Kylo loves Sith so much he perma cosplays as one....
     
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  13. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    So in other words- what you are saying is the KOR are worshipping the Sith? Not so sure about that...
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    we don't know that Vader has actually appeared to Ren.
    we know he's seen the power of the Darkside and we may draw a logical conclusion that it was Vader that showed it to him, but we just don't know that for certain.

    and i'm not sure why you think Snoke's beliefs aren't shared by Ren. Snoke has clearly warped Ren's perceptions of what happened to Vader.
    in the book they appear to emphatically agree about Vader (Ren is only woobly about the implications for himself in fighting his own Light).

    again, being Darkside does not automatically = Sith.
    wearing a mask does not automatically = Sith.
    wearing all black does not automatically = Sith.
    having a red light saber does not automatically = Sith.

    i agree the shadow of the Sith is looming because Vader's "presence" is almost tangible, but there's still no evidence yet of Sith.
    even Snoke isn't completely disinterested in the Light; for a Darksider he seems to be a bit ambivalent.

    people have been drawing connections between the Acolytes of Beyond (who definitely are invested in venerating the Sith), and the Knights of Ren.
    we don't have any confirmation whether there is any correlation between the two.
    Wendig's books hint that there might be, but again, it's all just speculation.
    at this point we actually know next to nothing about the Knights of Ren.

    and even if they are interested in historical Darkside artifacts (even Sith artifacts), once again, that doesn't necessarily make them Sith.
     
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  15. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebel Commander

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    Me too. I am not entirely convinced Rax is Snoke, but Rax is older than one may initially think.

    If one does the math to figure out when Rax was born, it is pretty revealing when seen through the eyes of ring theory.

    Aftermath takes place after Battle of Endor (4 ABY) but before the eve of Battle of Jakku (5 ABY) as we understand during the climax of Life Debt. Rax first appears in Imperial records as debuting in the Imperial Navy 20 years prior … at which time he was 20 years old. So, that is 4 - 20 = 14 (BBY) … minus his age to make his birth at around 34 (BBY).

    34 BBY mirrors 34 ABY -- the year of TFA. Ring Theory at work!

    Interestingly, as hinted at in Life Debt (kindle lcoation 2553), Rax was 12 when he snuck aboard the Imperialis, meeting Sheeve and Tashu--this is the same year as the events of AOTC (22 BBY)! Pretty cool!
     
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  16. zagernevans

    zagernevans Clone Commander

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    Unless Ring Theory has its own math, Rax would be born in 36bby.
     
  17. sirchris

    sirchris Clone Commander

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    I would find it a very bad story line if the ghost of "Vader" appeared to Kylo. At the end of ROTJ, Anakin was standing with Obi-Wan and Yoda and the Jedi returned. For Vader to appear would discredit ROTJ.
     
  18. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebel Commander

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    Yes, good catch! Counting year zero it is 36 BBY. If we count 4 BBY as a whole year, then Rax would be born in 35 BBY.
     
  19. Willrow-Hood

    Willrow-Hood Clone

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    Why did he change his name to something so stupid?
    SUPREME LEADER RAX>supreme leader snoke
     
  20. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    There are no other words. I never mentioned the lesser beings in his self-made, dark side cult. But I'm sure Disney will attempt to make them seem *better* than the Sith. And by better, I mean more evul, moar powahful yada yada yada....

    For Vader it does. Without the Order of the Sith Lords, there is no Darth Vader.
    Vader's dark side journey is intrinsically intertwined with being a Sith. There is no escaping this.

    Anakin was already strong in force when he said: "I submit myself to your teachings."

    Kylo is praying to Vader's ruined helmet because he is concerned that his Master has felt Ben's call to the light. He's asking a dead Sith Lord; who happens to be his grandfather, for help with feeling connected to the dark side. If they wanted the new dark side Order to be taken seriously, then they shouldn't have the new main bad-guy praying to the dead of the old Order, asking for help. Snoke's position of Supreme Bad Guy is undermined by Kylo seeking knowledge elsewhere.

    Look at what caused him to pray. Rey exposed Kylo's fanboy thoughts when she saw the fear in his mind of failing to measure up to the strength of DARTH VADER.... again, no mention of Anakin Skywalker. Black clothes are meaningless, I agree.... but red sabers have always been associated with Sith Lords on film. That is why the droid moron was given Jedi sabers instead of his own red ones. But at this point, who really cares? Anyone familiar with melee weapons can hold one now. And use it.

    Because of Kylo's actions, I find it laughable that Snoke is more powerful than Palpatine.
    He can barely stand up; so consider me underwhelmed.

    For 40 years OOU and 20,000 years IU, the Sith have been the pinnacle of dark side cults.
    Plagueis would have felt more organic in that half-crippled role, but I digress....
    Snoke and the KoR just don't measure up in my book.
     
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