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Snoke's Dialogue

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by SegNerd, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but I have to say - I can't be the only person who thinks that Snoke's final lines of dialog were just plain cheesy.

    The scene is written like it's supposed to surprise the viewers that Ben kills Snoke instead of Rey - but in my opinion, not only is it obvious to the audience, Snoke's own phrasing almost makes it seem like he himself is "in on it."

    One possible explanation is that Snoke really was in on it and that he is alive, but this would just cheapen the story in a different way by having a character come back from a seemingly final death.

    I don't mean any offense to people who love TLJ, but in my opinion, if ROTJ had been written this way, Palpatine's last words would've been something like, "And now, you will die... unless someone throws me into that giant reactor shaft, and gee I hope no one does that!"
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Why does the orginal post get a dislike?
     
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  3. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

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    Snoke character has memorables lines. They dont sound cheesy to me at all. Actually everything that we see and hear in the throne room is amazing.
    And I was took by surprised in his death scene.
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Hold the press...some Star Wars dialogue was “cheesy”?!

    Shocking. :p
     
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  5. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel General

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    He isn't in on it, he just senses what Kylo Ren is about to do. Ignite his lightsaber and kill his true enemy. I totally get it if that doesn't work for you, though.
     
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  6. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Yes, you are the only person. Out of millions of people who saw Episode VIII you're the only one who thought that Snoke's lines were cheesy. This comment will inevitably shift all of our perspectives on how this scene was executed.

    I despise such pieces of writing. The ones that begin with "I can't be the only person who thinks that..." Or the ones that directly address the fans of the thing you complaining about, especially in such a condescending way. Posts like these bring NOTHING to the discussion on the piece but negative emotions. So, this is all that you'll hear from me in this thread. Good Day, sir!
     
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  7. Imbrie

    Imbrie Rebelscum

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    People can be overly touchy. OP is right though. I'm going with the assuption that Snoke foresaw what was about to happen.
     
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  8. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Force Sensitive

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    I did not see them as cheesy but a lot of grandiose lines for a guy who got taken out so quick and easy from his apprentice (if he knew what Kylo was really going to do) and a move if he does know seems odd given it means giving up his power and his life.
     
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  9. Contreras1991

    Contreras1991 Rebelscum

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    star wars was always full of chessy lines
     
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  10. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Sensitive

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    Are you sure about that? Never once does Ben give off the impression that he wants to kill Rey, in fact, it's the opposite. For Ben it's all about Rey standing with him. That's what he wants, that's what he envisions, Snoke isn't anywhere in that picture. He's already made the decision to get Snoke out of here, he just doesn't necessarily know how until Snoke provides him the opportunity. I don't think the scene is supposed to be shocking or surprising in a, "WOW I CAN'T BELIEVE HE DID THAT!!" kind of way, it's supposed to be more of a, "YES HE FINALLY DID IT!!" type of thing. It's not something completely out of left field, it was something a lot were expecting or at least something people knew was a possibility, especially given Snoke's treatment of Ben combined with Ben's compassion for Rey. Of course they have to build up the suspense of the scene by making it seem like Ben doesn't know what he's going to do, but a lot of the dialogue is kept ambiguous, which to me is a good thing.

    Or it's just another case of dark side users being far too overconfident which ultimately needs to their downfall. Whether it's Anakin on Mustafar, Palpatine on the Death Star or Snoke on the Supremacy.
     
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  11. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    *sigh* not this again....

    No it's not. It's written to where Kylo deceives Snoke via his thoughts, so that he can kill him, and the audience gets to see it play out. Snoke is being fooled, not the audience.

    Kylo's killing of Snoke, and not Rey, is further supported by the scene between Kylo and Snoke earlier in the film, which served as a setup.


    TLJ's reputation is hurt by the fact that most viewers can't decipher even the slightly unconventional, no matter how well setup.
     
    #11 Benjamin Lewis, Feb 12, 2018
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  12. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    Snoke being fooled is even harder to believe than the audience being fooled. He is the Supreme Leader who is strong in the Dark Side, and yet somehow he doesn't notice a lightsaber spinning right next to him. Not to mention, why didn't he include a "Don't kill Snoke" code when he was hacking Ben's brain?

    To the people saying this post is pure negativity and contributes nothing, I stated twice in the original post that I didn't mean any offense to people who disagree, and my post (unlike yours) does contribute to a valid discussion of the scene. I am not the only person, and I have talked to people who agree.

    And to the people saying "All SW dialog is cheesy" - that's a fair point. :)

    I think I'm going to have to bow out of this thread because it is generating too much negative rep. I stand behind my original post. One of the biggest problems with the rep system is that it discourages people from taking a viewpoint that differs from the most popular one.
     
    #12 SegNerd, Feb 12, 2018
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  13. Light Savior

    Light Savior Force Attuned

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    One thing that really surprise me is that Kylo show that he kill Snoke and Snoke never "feel" it coming.Is like Kylo was more powerful to distract Snoke and he did not notice nothing.One more thing is that Snoke tell Rey and Kylo that was he (Snoke) that connect Kylo and Rey far away visions.Why at the end when Rey aboard the Falcon with the survivors of the cave in Crait Rey and Kylo see each other again?Snoke was dead already.That was weird to me BUT one thing is sure for me.Kylo kill Snoke because he was angry when he make him feel little about the mask.That speech in Snoke throne room change Kylo a lot...believe me.
     
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I think it depends on what happened- which at the present, I'm not sure we can be 100% sure about. I like @The Last Jorgny's theory that Snoke foresaw Kylo striking down his "true enemy", and just misinterpreted what that meant. I also really like the idea that Snoke may have totally known what Kylo was going to do, but cheekily narrated the whole thing for some currently unknown reason.

    Either way, though, I think Snoke's dialogue is clearly meant to showcase his arrogance- either a misplaced arrogance (like in the first example) or a truly sinister, validated arrogance (like in the second).
     
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  15. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    Kylo is very familiar with the way Snoke views his thoughts, intentions, and emotions. The film very clearly shows Kylo focusing his thoughts for the purpose of deceiving Snoke. None of it was done without setup, reasoning, and method.

    Brings an OT quote to mind. "Your thoughts betray you."

    The Emperor certainly didn't sense that Vader was about to betray him and hurl him down a shaft.
     
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    Snoke projected them across space.
    they were likely always connected in proximity.
    he just exploited that connection to make them tangible to one another.
     
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  17. AfraidFool

    AfraidFool Rebel Trooper

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    This all goes back to the movie having a lot going on.

    In ROTJ we had a lot more screen time from the OT to make the character decisions more believable.
    In TLJ we have a more complicated setup, which IMO is rushed.

    I was caught off guard by everything that happened left and right throughout the whole movie, especially the throne room scene because I didn't have time to process why these characters feel different now.
    While I don't see a defense of "you just need to give it another watch" as a legitimate defense for the movie being of quality, I do understand it.


    I really feel that the relationship between Snoke/Kylo is different in TFA than it is in TLJ, and there is very little screen time to back a change in the relationship.
    I AM NOT SAYING IT ISN'T THERE.
    but, in my foolish opinion, it is rushed - and carries very little weight.
     
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  18. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    Force foreseen is always like that.
    Joruus C'Baoth foreseen that Mara Jade would kneel before him. He took it as in kneel before me and proclaim your fealty.
    She killed him while in a kneeling position. ;)
     
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  19. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    this is an interesting and totally legitimate observation.
    when you read the TFA novel, you see both sides of Snoke: his threats and abuse as well as the way he pets and coddles Ren.
    i think Abrams tempered that too much in TFA and then Johnson ran wild with it in TLJ.
    so i can see how the swing might feel extreme to some people.
    but it was definitely always Snoke's nature to be a predator who was exploiting Ben and keeping him in check by endlessly building him up and then tearing him down.
     
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  20. srg

    srg Force Sensitive

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    I love the irony of this scene. Snoke's misjudgment of what was coming is a brilliant way of giving us an insight into how his mind operated. He felt that Kylo is going to strike an enemy but, because of his arrogance, he didn't notice (or wasn't even able to notice) that he is the enemy. He appeared incredibly powerful and very limited at the same time. This aspect is highlighted in the direction of the scene, because we, the audience, see Anakin's lightsaber turning.

    I'd say it's a very interesting insight into dark side psychology in general.
     
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