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Snoke's Influence in Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Jaxxon, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    One of the few criticisms of TLJ that I really agree with is the underdevelopment of Snoke. I'm fine with him turning out to be an easily-defeated, prideful poseur. I'm fine with him staying dead. But the story demands some explanation--even as much as one line in the title crawl explaining where he came from.

    Do we think Abrams, especially having built up Snoke in TFA, will return to Snoke's influence in Episode IX? Will Snoke's backstory finally be revealed and have some bearing on the story, even after his death?

    I've heard one theory, which I kind of like but don't believe, that other members of Snoke's species will now invade from the unknown regions and pose a threat to both the Resistance and the First Order. But perhaps Snoke's influence could reach out in another way. Perhaps his origins in the dark side could lead Kylo further down his own dark path, into deeper study of the dark side?

    So, your thoughts: do you think we're done with Snoke, or will his backstory somehow play into the story after his death? And how?
     
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  2. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    "He's dead Jim."

    Snoke backstory will be in a novel somewhere. That's it.

    Episode IX has too much other stuff it has to resolve besides the background of a dead guy
     
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  3. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I "listened" 2 sum of the novels. Tarkin, Thrawn & the Aftermath trilogy all 4shadowed a "dark presence" coming from the Unknown Regions. I assumed it was Snoke and/or his race.
     
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  4. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    We're done. Also, this clip from Pulp Fiction sums up Snoke's importance to the story - he did what he had to do and that's the only thing we need to know about him.
     
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  5. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I think Rian actually did more for Snoke than JJ just by giving Snoke a personality and giving Andy Serkis something to do. That being said, he did what he needed to do - be a stepping stone for the new Supreme Leader. He's dead and if JJ doesn't want to waste space in his film, he'd leave Snoke in his grave.
     
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  6. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    It will be interesting come June, on who's the returning cast and who are the new actors cast for IX
     
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  7. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Oh, definitely. I make a lot of fun out of Snoke's golden bathrobe, but I do adore it, just like all the theatricality surrounding his throne room. The red curtain, his over-the-top Praetorian Guards that wear red in order to match the curtain and the oculus. In TLJ Snoke was fun - he felt like Rian had fun writing him and Andy had fun playing him, as did the team that was responsible for making Snoke look the way he looked.
     
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  8. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    TLJ left our new characters in such a situation that nearly anything at this point is possible.

    i briefly touched on a theory regarding Snoke's fam coming into town wondering where old Snokey boy got to. don't they mention somewhere in canon that his race facilitates hyperspace travel in the unknown regions? sounds like an interesting and potentially powerful crew.

    if they don't go that route and decide to stick with the conflict of Ren and Rey that's totally fine by me; i'm ok with only receiving backstory on Snoke in a novel or cartoon or something.
     
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  9. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    At this point Snoke’s backstory is unimportant to the movies. He was used to raise Kylo as the ultimate villain of the ST. While his backstory would be interesting, it will be likely be covered in a novel (as others have said) or maybe in a comic.personally, I would prefer a novel. IX will be about further developing our main characters and bringing a resolution to the ST. Snoke’s backstory will just get in the way. There may be some references to Snoke in IX but I think that will be it.
     
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  10. duckface

    duckface Rebel Official

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    I don't think Snoke's backstory is worth telling on film. Seems to me he was essentially a plot device--a Dark Side superior needed to turn, train, and ultimately be turned on by Kylo Ren.

    And that's fine by me. The Saga films are about a core group of characters; I for one don't expect Galactic History 101 when I watch an Episode.

    But I would like Lucasfilm to eventually explore Snoke's origins and what relation they have--if any--to Palpatine's explorations of the Unknown Regions. In a book or stand-alone film, perhaps.
     
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  11. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I think the biggest influence he could have is more based on his relationships with the “money” in the Galaxy. The people behind the scenes that wanted the First Order to rise probably had trust in Snoke. In his absence, they may not feel comfortable dealing with Leia’s son as Supreme Leader. Also, Snoke may have had plans in case of his death. So while I don’t really care about his backstory, I do want to see what kind of void is left now that he’s dead, and how it effects the First Order.
     
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  12. Dra---

    Dra--- Rebelscum

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    Imagine if Snoke had an interesting story in the ST, how much better Kylo's achievement would have been.
     
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  13. Pawek_13

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    If he was an interesting character there would have been no point in killing him in the first place.
     
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  14. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The issue now, is that if they want to bow to fan pressure and explain Snoke, there is little room within IX for there to be a reason to do that. He's dead.
    However, if they tie it into Kylo's story going forward, it would be relevant.

    Enter Darth Plagueis The Wise.

    If Kylo Ren discovers that Snoke was Plagueis and that he created the Skywalker family then that might be a means to link it into the story (in a number of ways).
    I don't think some monologue by someone about Snoke's origins will be a good idea otherwise.
     
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  15. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Such a discovery might seem to convince Ben his is unredeemable, somehow fated to be bad no matter what. That could be a compelling aspect of his inner struggle and spiritual development.

    And perhaps Force Ghost Luke and Rey could help him battle such a misperception and reclaim his Light Side life by realizing he, like Luke and Anakin before him, can conquer the Dark Side and liberate himself from the shadows of the past.

    One alternate way Snoke's background could be imparted is from Luke to Rey and/or Ben: just as Luke took a few moments to relate his understanding of the Jedi Order's failures to Rey, he could just as quickly and effectively clue Rey and/or Ben into what might be some critical history about Snoke and the First Order.

    Especially if Snoke somehow finds a way to return or transfer or sustain himself in some manner. Then we would definitely need some additional insight.
     
  16. Dark-Porkins

    Dark-Porkins Rebel Trooper

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    I believe that Snoke's presence will still loom over Ben mentally. If they give us anything new on Snoke in 9 I think it will be through Ben. Perhaps a dream of the past when he met Snoke etc. There is bound to be a time jump so any mention of Snoke by Force Ghost Luke to Rey would seem oddly timed unless new information was discovered and Rey asked Luke about it. I wouldn't disregard Snoke entirely just yet, but it does seem most likely he will get the Book Treatment.
     
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  17. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    I would like them to explain Snoke on screen, the idea of this trilogy picking up after return of the Jedi were we saw the Empire and the Emperor defeated and then the next film starts up with something that looks like the Empire back led by some one who looks like the Emperor and have no on screen explanation would just undermine the whole trilogy, like no one addresses the elephant in the room

    How they do it now they've killed of Snoke i dunno, i guess they could do it by giving Kylo Ren and the First order a goal (other them to be be very naughty and rule the world muhahahahahaha) and have that goal tied in with Snokes origins. Either that or maybe Snoke as a force ghost, that would be different, a Snoke force Ghost tormenting Kylo.

    What ever they do it has to make sense to the story but they can't just leave it like it is and bury the answers in the books, it basically them shouting out "WE CREATED THIS GUY BUT HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS OR WHERE HE CAME FROM! but we'll try to hide this in a book so it makes us look like we know what were doing and make the films vaguely make sense."
     
    #17 Mosley909, Jan 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
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  18. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    People say Snoke is dead, lets move on, well, wait a minute:

    Snoke influenced Ben and turned him to the dark side.Snoke thus in fact made sequel trilogy possible. Snoke also organised First Order, again making sequel trilogy possible.

    Explanation of Snoke is very important for logical cohesion of the sequel trilogy roots.

    No there could be no emperor from Original trilogy from the late 70-s analogy because Snoke came from nowhere just few yeas after the millenia old history of galaxy abruptly in which nothing was heard about beyond Sith- Jedi duality canon, again, just few years after the millenia old Sith-Jedi duality wanished.

    They of course may not explain the guy, but are facing a big (fundamental) plot hole and I hope someone after TLJ finally realises there could be additional consequences because of persistance in neglection of story cohesion and trivialisation of important characters.
     
    #18 McDiarmid, Jan 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  19. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    In a way, I think it would be so much easier to accept the notion that "Snoke is just Snoke" if there were no Emperor Palpatine preceding him.

    Here are some thoughts I have on that tangent:

    Palpatine represented the pinnacle of the Sith's return, something a very long time in progress, as Darth Maul helped certify through his terse dialogue.

    Now, we did not need to know that, or much else, during the Original Trilogy because it was generally established that there was an evil Empire and a corresponding Rebellions against that darkness.

    At that point, as of ROTJ, the Original Trilogy was the entire saga.

    But Palpatine's background story did arrive via the Prequel Trilogy, and that information permanently informs the rest of the saga, up through the Sequel Trilogy (Episode VII and forth).

    Had we no knowledge of what had happened earlier with the Empire, its Emperor, and the Rebellion, I think it would be rather easy to accept Snoke as simply the galaxy's supervillain du jour, the leader of the First Order (which would not at all come across as Empire 2.0 because there was no version 1.0) =)

    Right now, based on some quick readings of Rian Johnson commentary, it seems Snoke was, in the end, merely a sort of promotional vehicle / "fall guy" for Kylo Ren's ascension:

    “Okay, you have Kylo there at the end, what is Snoke’s place in all this?” he [Rian] argued. “Do you really want Kylo to be that but with an Emperor figure over him? And if it is that, then suddenly your options are much more familiar going into the next movie.”

    Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-snoke-scene-explained-1070030
    Which feels, to me, empty especially in light of how fatally disruptive and destructive Snoke was with our Original Trilogy heroes: Luke, Han, and Leia.

    When I think of what he managed to do, to them, to Ben, to the Republic and the galaxy at large, it is very saddening and seemingly, if it is left as is, without sufficiently established reason.

    IX now bears the aftermath of Snoke's influence, and all the consequences which followed.

    So, personally, I am hopeful we can have some more opportunity to learn a bit more about Snoke and his true agenda. I think Leia, Han, and Luke definitely deserve that part of the story to be relayed.
     
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  20. Darth Basin The Greatest

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    This could set up a story or side story in 9. Much of the galaxy hates Vader & don't trust the Skywalkers. Now a scion of that family rules much of the GFFA. This could set up a coup attempt by the rich on KR.
     
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