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Snoke's plan...

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by ITG, May 30, 2016.

  1. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    You mean a quite similar setup like Vader trying to overthrow Palpatine with Luke's help? Could be. But if I imagine a confrontation with Snoke and Kylo, what should Rey stop to kill Kylo (Rey has - so far - no reason to show compassion for him). What I try to point at is that Kylo seems not to be in a good starting position for the ongoing story. He has a lot to lose and not nearly as much to win, if he really takes Rey to Snoke. On the other hand, if Snoke should see Rey just as a light-side-threat, Kylo would have a better standing (but don't think so).
     
    #21 oldbert, Aug 15, 2016
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    You're right, that's quite similar.

    Rey and Kylo are sharing a force bond, regardless of whether they are related or not. I think after talking to Luke, she will develop compassion for Kylo. I would even go so far as to say that Rey's mission (in the ST) is to bring Kylo back to the light.
     
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  3. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    You know what @Ninjabeans? I really hope you are right and that this will be the way how they go on with this story! :)
     
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i don't get the feeling that Snoke is all that interested in Rey at this point. he doesn't seem to recognize her as the awakening and he doesn't think she's strong (remember, he tells Ren that it's Ren's weakness, not her strength that made him fail).

    that might change, but at the moment, my impression is that Snoke just wants to use her to torment Ren (because of his compassion for her) and i suspect Ren will not take kindly to that.
    Ren even might be the one to ask Snoke if he can "have her" to train, but the minute Snoke comes between Ren and Rey, Ren's going to have a serious crisis and likely choose her over him, causing all hell to break loose.
     
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  5. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    and do you think, that Snoke will, like Sheev, underestimate the compassion of Ren for her? And the ultimate test for Kylo will be Snoke torturing (or even preparing to kill) Rey in front of him and Snoke will bring up sthg like"..Now learn to let go your foolish compassion for this girl and show me that you're stronger than Vader ever has been.."? And Kylo will respond:"Have I mentioned, that your grumpy old deformed fish gaze is not nearly as beautiful as this girl in front of you . Easy choice. Common girl, let's find a energy field for roasting that disgusting fish monster.. etc. etc. :)
     
    #25 oldbert, Aug 15, 2016
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    hahaha ~ yes! exactly like that!

    in the book it seemed like Snoke wanted to torture or kill Rey to test Ren's resolve (or worse, make Ren torture and/or kill her himself). but even if Ren doesn't understand it, i think he recognizes that she is his other half and he's going to protect that, even if only on the basis of purely instinctual self-preservation.
     
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  7. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    We should send him a memo, just to remind him and to be prepared for the right moment :) ("..Dear mask fetishist, please keep in your nebulous darkened mind, that you have only one real chance..")
     
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  8. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    He is more interested in finding a way to extend his life. I believe he will attempt to use the force to take over Rey or Kylo. His power maybe extremely limited because he is using all the force he has to stay alive. He wants a more powerful body to take over so he can stay alive and use force powers too.
     
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  9. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    We know Snoke existed before the fall of the Sith, was knocking around during that time and only came into the galactic arena after their demise.
    Thus his plan has to have something to do with the Force going back into balance.

    My guess is that Snoke is old (perhaps not ancient though) and likely requires the power of the dark side to survive. That's the crux of the character.
    Practitioners of the Dark Side both predated and outlived the Sith but no one with any real power to wield the Dark Side and influence galactic events existed after the Sith's demise. This is how balanced was restored. And thus this is what "awoke" Snoke.

    With the Sequel Trilogy, Disney had to come up with a villain that is both different to but also equal or greater in threat than Palpatine - otherwise the story isn't being continued. There isn't a new challenge for the heroes. Thus it strikes me that Snoke, whoever he is, will be a puppet master of the Dark Side. Someone who didn't need to be the public face of the previous trilogies but who controlled events on a grand scale behind the scenes. The talk of him being "the source of the Dark Side" implies this. I don't think he is "the Devil" or the literal source of the Dark Side. That doesn't make sense. But perhaps what Palpatine felt and incorrectly assumed was the source of his power, was simply a being who manipulated events or the Force itself to keep the status quo he desired? (When the Sith had visions of their dark future, maybe these were inspired by Snoke?) This would make both the Sith and the Jedi his pawns. Snoke would quietly operate behind the scenes orchestrating events so that the galaxy would remain in chaos (more on this later).

    But when the unimaginable happens - when one of his pawns, Darth Vader destroys the Sith and brings balance, it severely weakens him. Perhaps this is what deforms Snoke? Perhaps before this he is the perfect being, a Dorian Gray or sorts that when the spell is broken, his true appearance is finally revealed. And then Snoke himself, with no pawns left, has to emerge - risk his own life, and disrupt the balance.

    Snoke has no real concern in what happens to the SK base. He only cares about disrupting the peace, destroying those that could once again bring balance - Luke and then later Rey. His end game would appear to me be more about turning the galaxy on itself, causing an endless war and once his new pawn (Kylo Ren) has engineered this for him, he will destroy him and thus remove any threat of a repetition of Vader's balance restoring act. This is what Snoke has always wanted - an eternal war in the galaxy to ensure an ever present evil. An evil that empowers and sustains him. But he was simply wrong in thinking he could control the power that the Skywalker's in particular wielded.

    So for me Snoke's plan is to bring chaos to the galaxy.
     
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  10. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    Possibly similar to Abeloth. We already had "The Ones" introduced in the Clone Wars. Maybe he was imprisoned in the outer regions and the First Order released him. Palpatine's feeling the source of his power originating out there, somewhere could have been the calling of Snoke like Abeloth's call to the Jedi...... yep, I know, crazy and far fetched! haha
     
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  11. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    Snoke will die at 12 min mark of 8 from a Trooper cleaning his weapon and having a misfire =)_ No plan.
     
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  12. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Snoke has already been revealed to be weaker than Darth Sidious. He is afraid of Luke Skywalker, as he believes only Luke can stop him. Revealing the Sith to be pawns of Snoke would not only undermine already established characters, it would be contradictory. If Luke scares Snoke, then what chance would Snoke have against Palpatine?
     
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  13. zagernevans

    zagernevans Clone Commander

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    Where is it indicated that Snoke actually fears Luke? He wants his primarybthreat neutralized, sure, but I never got a sense he was afraid.
     
  14. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    In the novelisation.
     
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  15. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    This is something I've thought about myself, and it means one of two things: either Snoke is weaker than Palpatine, or Luke has achieved new levels of power in the Force that we've never seen before, and that even Palpatine might find himself afraid of. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for Ep. 8 to really find out which one it is.
     
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  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I don't think fearing Luke makes Snoke weaker than Palpatine. Palps feared a few people himself. It's not contradictory as I'm not saying Snoke is indestructible or a God. But he must provide a different threat to Palpatine else the hero journey isn't going anywhere in the saga.

    For me the difference must = some kind of power that is more about domination over the force itself rather than Palpatines attempt st dominating the "physical world".

    This doesn't diminish Palpatine. (Especially if Snoke is Plagueis as then Palps would've once defeated him). It just means Snoke has a different talent that one could interpret as being greater than what Palps had. It's also a way allowing the villain to continue the story whilst being connected to what came before rather than just being another new start to the story after the full stop of ROTJ.
     
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  17. GingerByte

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    Personally, I would have chosen a force-cult like witches as the antagonists for the sequel trilogy. You could explore another aspect of the dark side: magick, without drawing too many comparisons to earlier material.

    Unless Snoke brings something new to the table in regards to force lore, he'll feel like a wasted character and/ or opportunity.
     
    #37 GingerByte, Aug 17, 2016
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  18. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    That was done on CW and they were close to be extinguished, not sure how that would be a believable threat.

    I'm not so sure why fear of Luke Skywalker is a sign of weakness. it showed that Snoke is much more calculating. He is not overconfident, he is aware of possible outcomes, like Kylo's inner struggle and was even prepared for the SKB loss. One thing that made Sith weak was overconfidence and internal conflicts.
    If Snoke is able to move beyond the mayor flaws of the Sith, he is quite strong in my book.
     
    #38 Rieekan, Aug 17, 2016
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  19. GingerByte

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    That was the Dathomiri Witches. Who's to say there aren't any more magick wielders out there? In legends, Felucian natives used magick to tame rancors.

    "Not sure how that would be a believable threat." They can temporarily live on after their physical body has been destroyed, they can raise the dead and possess people etc. A very deadly threat!

    Luke Skywalker wouldn't be as powerful as Republic-era Jedi, as plenty of Jedi knowledge was lost thanks to the Empire. For Snoke to fear him, doesn't bode well for his 'power level'.
     
  20. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    Yeah or maybe we forget that power level stuff, didn't help Anakin once in his crucial fights;). That is what the story of David vs. Goliath is about, to find a way around the most obvious strength feats.

    Well those dead zombie witches didn't last long against Dooku's army and the Emperor fought Talzin with ease, wasn't she killed by Grievous. I don't know, maybe I'd rather watch a villain who learned from previous mistakes.
     
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