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SPOILER Speculation about all Force Users in the ST and Snoke

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by oldbert, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. oldbert

    oldbert Jedi General

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    The last TV trailer reminded me of a speculation from @master_shaitan about Snoke who could possibly Force Drain people who are powerful in the Force.
    What if it comes out, that Snoke is really a kind of Force hungry vampire who gets the more powerful and restored the more powerful force wielding "followers" let him in their minds where he is able to establish his powers in "draining" their force power and the more extreme they focus themselves to - no matter what side (light or dark of - the force the more it feeds Snokes.
    Because then it would be a feast for Snoke to have an extreme powerful darksider and also an extreme powerful lightsider (to keep balance, "darkness rises and light to meet it". best Yamyam for the "Force sucker").
    If that is the case, VIII could end with Rey and Kylo being unwillingly "Force food slaves" for Snoke and Luke (and Leia in the original plot before Carries tragrdy) would have to fight Snoke (more in mind and will powers then physicly) to free the minds of Ren and Rey to enable to join him that all free of them can finish disgusting old fish together!"

    (Luke tried to find old Jedi lore to strengthen his mind and he perhaps thinks that all Force Sensitives that willingly "use" the Force get catched by Snokey Force Spider sooner or later; therefore the Jedi have to End first; second move is to brake Snokes powers and only if this second move is successful the establishment of a new kind of Force using beings makes sense; otherwise there will be always a way for Snoke to corrupt them)

    Crazy? What to you think?
     
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  2. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    It's original. I give you that. It would also dove-tail nicely with Han's comments "Snoke is just using you for your power, once he has what he wants he'll crush you". Line didn't make much sense in TFA upon casual examination, but if what you're suggesting in true it would put things in context.
     
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  3. oldbert

    oldbert Jedi General

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    Thanks for replying @Rayjefury ! I thought it ill be one of my 0-reply threads all over again :D !
     
    #3 oldbert, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  4. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    i've been wondering about Luke's reaction in that TV spot as well. it's very curious to see him so alarmed.

    the Force vampire theory isn't a new one, and it's never sat right with me. if Snoke was feeding off of others' Force powers, why isn't Kylo Ren weakened by being around Snoke? why would Snoke wait to consume Kylo Ren's power until some other Force user came around? wouldn't he have been satisfied with the spawn of Skywalker?

    i'm sure there will be some that say, "well, Rey is Luke's daughter, Snoke is clearly waiting for her!" but that assumes that not only is Rey Luke's child, but Snoke knew about her and was waiting for her to be revealed down the line. a lot to assume, with how little we have in the way of hard evidence...

    i was assuming that Luke is warning Rey because maybe Snoke and/or Kylo Ren are actively searching for her via the Force, and that when she "reaches out" she accidentally reveals herself. this would help explain Luke's anxiety.

    another thought i had was what if Rey is playing Luke, trying to get a reaction out of him to show that he is involved despite acting like he'd rather Rey leave.
     
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  5. oldbert

    oldbert Jedi General

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    Good point, good thoughts as well. I like your argument even better.
    I also knew it's not new at all. Therefore I pointed at @master_shaitan s theory.
     
    #5 oldbert, Nov 20, 2017
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  6. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    It could be that he's been manipulating Kylo all this time, pretending that he was teaching him and guiding him, when really he was "fattening the calf". Maybe he was just trying to ensure that he could maintain control over Kylo until he reached his maximum power and therefore was of maximum value to Snoke. It's possible. Don't know about probable, but at least possible and would be a turn not many would expect.
     
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  7. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Force drain idea was stollen by Master Shaitan who stole it from Force Nun, who stole it from me.:p

    It was referenced in the Atermath novel, adviser Tashu epyphany.
     
    #7 McDiarmid, Nov 20, 2017
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  8. Mudbone

    Mudbone Rebel General

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    Can we see some new Force powers that haven't been shown so far in the movies, too?
     
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  9. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    true, he may be "fattening" Kylo Ren up, as you suggest.

    still, it's clear that Snoke doesn't want any new Jedi coming around. you'd think that, if he was into powerful Force users, the more of them around the better. one could argue that a fully trained Jedi may be too much for Snoke to choke down, which means he's more into untrained Force sensitives, i guess? then why fatten Kylo up?
     
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  10. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Yeah that's what I was thinking. If this theory is true, he wants Force Users, but not those trained specifically to oppose him. The cost to benefit ratio maybe gets too small if he has to fight more than the Force User's potential is worth.
     
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  11. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I am the Senate

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    I don't think Snoke is as much about Rey as Kylo is. Something really intrigued him when he found another force user in raw form. And then she created a problem for him. Mainly when it came to the saber, but then maybe because Kylo has such compassion or curiosity that is when Snoke gets involved and then wants to use her. I don't know.

    But as for the last trailer. Strange Luke wants her to reach out but then when she does and touches on something alien so to speak, then Luke starts freaking out. I'm gonna guess it was Kylo and not Snoke though. Probably that is how he finds them.
     
    #11 Bluemilk, Nov 20, 2017
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  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Thanks for the mention @oldbert

    Force draining is something that I really think will be part of Snoke's arsenal. I've thought this for a hundred reasons and the recent trailers and pictures have only supported his view.

    However, in regards to what happens in this trailer shot - I believe his is like the occupency (if that's the right word) scenes in Harry Potter where Harry connects with Voldemort and gives away his location (amongst other things). Snape teaches Harry how to make use of this but he has to learn to control his mind. I think Snoke clearly got in to Ben's head without anyone knowing until it was too late. Luke likely knows he has to teach Rey how to resist. My guess is that Rey gets drawn in by Snoke though - perhaps the promise of discovering her roots? She will go to him willingly in my opinion after speaking with Kylo.

    My only question is what is Luke doing when all this happens? Where is he when Rey leaves Ahch To and goes to Snoke?
     
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  13. oldbert

    oldbert Jedi General

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    Beside Snoke:

    Weak, vulnerable Force sensitives and their lessons:

    Ancestor:
    Anakin was not that difficult to influence by Sheev because of his fear of loosing beloved once.

    Ben felt like kind of overseen between all the important tasks his parents had to focus on.
    A frustrated high potential in combination with a perhaps natural "lust" getting as powerful as possible. Easy case for Snoke the wise.

    Rey as abandond kid on Jakku. With suddendly awaked powers that more confused and frightened her than anything else. Seeking for advice. Luke refuses. Good for Snoke. Maybe a chance to get his hands on a pupil that doesn't throw tantrums. No need for Kylo anymore.

    What did Luke help when he first met Vader. The "luck" to get the chance to "jump away" from him on Bespin and staying alive. Lesson learned for the next meeting (with a robotic hand as reminder in the most important moment).

    What could save Rey and Ren from Snoke. The anger and disappointment of a "displaced" Ren seeking for revenge and "(selfcentred) justice" in combination with an old Jedi Master who, again, had to learn another hard lesson (disappointed Rey who left him im Ach-Too)?
    We will soon know the truth :D

    Yep @master_shaitan . What will Luke become ? :)
     
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  14. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I am the Senate

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    Makes wonder if using the force is like using a distress beacon now. Anytime someone does they know. Snoke knew when Rey did. Maybe Luke doesn't use the force because it will be known he did. Only way to go off the grid so to speak. But I guess that will change.
     
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  15. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    I Think based on the fact that Snoke never met Rey he'd find it hard or maybe even impossible to locate her.

    Vader felt Obi Wan's presence in IV but if he had not ever met Obi Wan before could he have identified him via this feeling? I kinda think not.

    I think it Likely that the 'mysterious' connection Rey and Ren have will be this kind of thing we see in the trailer, hence why Luke says hes seen this kind of raw strength before, in relation to his old pupil.

    And I think that Kylo Ren will talk to Rey via this link, show her things...like Leia wounded, or the resistance scattered....or ways that Luke has failed. and He will get to Rey that way, convincing her to come to him.

    This could either be a genuine offer on his part, or part of his plan to hand her to snoke, but I bet thats how she ends up with Snoke.
     
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  16. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Rebel Official

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    I have wondered and thought that myself. But, what about Obi Wan on Tatooine. Did he go all those years without using the force so he couldn't be found? Yoda left him with a task to commune with his old master which I assume he had to use the force to do it. Yoda also used the force on Dagobah in ESB but it didn't lead Vader there.

    Maybe if you stretch out to far with it then they can sense you but if you keep it localized they can't.

    I don't really mind Snoke being about to force drain. But if he is using to gain power, wouldn't he want as many force users as possible to be able to drain. Having to many though would increase the chance of him being overwhelmed. He can't handle but some many at one time.
     
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  17. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I am the Senate

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    I never really thought about that. Vader didn't sense Obi Wan until they were on the Deathstar though.

    I that maybe that's it stretching out too far. Wasn't Palpatine doing that in one of the books?
    Maybe similar to Professor X? People picked up on him searching.
     
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  18. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Rebel Official

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    Yea, think he did. I know in the EU Legends Luke, the twins, etc, could reach out and feel they others when they wanted too. Abeloth was reaching out from the Maw to specific Jedi. I think it is probably up to the user and their power in the force how far they reach.
     
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  19. Jase Windu

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    He resembles one of the mysterious Whills who are experts in the Force (Journal of the Whills) so you may have something there.
     
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  20. Giaja

    Giaja Rebel Trooper

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    Il also like the force vampire theory.
    Snoke definitely seems to be slowly regenerating (photomontage credits to the "SW theory" youtube channel, but he missed the eyes which are the most striking), and there's a probable connection with the strange device in his throne room.
    Besides, I haven't played the game yet, but apparently the end of BF2 features a First Order officer talking about the "Project Resurrection", which would fit nicely with a long sleeping Snoke in the Unknown regions finally awoken by the FO and fed with vital essences.
    Extrapolating a little bit further, I also believe that Snoke was once defeated in a far distant path by the Jedi and entombed in the unknown regions. The future trilogy by RJ could explore these events. That's some very personnal speculations, but it could explain why Luke's looking for the first Jedi temple : to find a way to defeat Snoke.

    And finally, this theory also goes very well with the concept of the Starkiller Base : a giant device which litteraly "sucks" the energy of a sun to power itself. Like a monstrous embodiment of the leader himself.



    [​IMG]
     
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