STAR WARS Saga and Moral Compass

How did a discussion on the moral compass of the films descend into lazy CGI bashing? There's more practical effects in the prequels than there are in the original trilogy, as has been confirmed by the people who worked on them, so can we put the "too much CGI" argument to bed, now, please?

I'm sure that won't end the bashing but I did my bit lol.

When A New Hope (or Star Wars as it was then called) was released, it was the time of Dirty Harry, The French Connection and China Town (fine movies all). Not only that, but apparently there was something of a spiritual void in peoples' lives. Star Wars was myth-making for a new generation. I wouldn't undermine the talents involved in bringing Star Wars to the screen by saying that it wouldn't have been as successful if it had been released, say, in the sixties or the eighties, but certainly the timing of its release has to be factored into the seismic effect it had on its audience.

If Star Wars had been made by a film studio, then there is little doubt that the subsequent movies would have been more of the same, just bigger and louder. By refusing to go down that simple route, George Lucas gave us a series of films that inspire countless viewings and, in turn, allow us to explore the big themes that affect us all as a species. I always marvelled at the way in which the release of each new epsiode in the saga changed the perspective in which the previous films could be seen. How many of us, for instance, imagined the Jedi as noble and virtuous knights, based on Obi-wan's dialogue in A New Hope, only to have that impression turned on its head when the prequels revealed them to be arrogant, aloof and deeply flawed?

 

Indeed! Not only that, it was also clear that Palpy had been in regular contact with Anakin, whispering lies and falsehoods in his ear! Always telling him he would become more powerful than anybody!

Sad thing is, as a ten year old he was much wiser and more clearheaded than a decade later!

As for his seemingly irrational behaviour @General_Tarkin, as stated before, Palpatine had mentored Anakin from the beginning, telling him how great he was, that it wan't his fault, that he had to trust his own (twisted) feelings over the teachings of the Jedi! At the same time the Jedi were to arrogant and distracted by politics to notice their "chosen one" was going over the deep end...

How could he switch from loving Obi-Wan like a father to hating him? You cannot truly hate someone without loving them to a certain point! Plus he felt betrayed! Just like he felt betrayed by Padmé! Erroniously? Oh yes, absolutely!
But if there is one thing people with bloated ego's cannot do (and Palps had been pumping hot air up his @$$ for years!!), it is except their own responsability in everything that happens around them, nor the consequences! And so they appear to act irrational, yet in their own mind it makes perfect sense!

This is basic psychology 101 and GL has used this prefectly!
Where it all falls apart is when in editing to many little exposition scenes, which could have clarified this, were cut for time, flow and furthering the story!
This is my personal biggest beef with editing a lot of times, they put too much emphasis on keeping movies within a certain time window, because the producers think we don't want to sit 3 hour's in a movie theater! While most of the moviegoers rather have a movie that compelles and when it's done they're like: "Wait, was that three and a half hour's?"

Now, however, we have to except both the PT and the OT as they are now, with all their flaws and (try to) enjoy them
for what they are, instead of what they could have been!
I now that I have no problems at all with this! To me they are popcorn-entertainment with light phylosophical layers and a great storyarc!

I love them and I am very curious what happens next, whatever direction they choose to follow!

 

George Lucas is ruthless as an editor, paring down each scene to its bare bones. In the case of the prequels, the devil is in the detail; he does not waste time so each frame is loaded with information, each line of dialogue is worth ten minutes of exposition (think of that scene between Anakin and Palpatine in AotC - lesser filmmakers would have put at least ten scenes of that nature in the film to illustrate the relationship between the two characters; this one scene that they share, though, gives us all the information we need to know).

I'm happy that he continued to conform to the length of time established by the films in the OT when making the prequels. More often than not, three and a half hour films really do feel like three and a half hour films!

 

Oh absolutely! I agree! But still there have been important scenes cut from the movie that perhaps shoulden't have.

Don't get me wrong, like I said, I love all SW movies, including the PT! I'm just trying to look from both perspectives here!

I agree, it makes it more coherent! Though I'd wager the OT could have gained from a few scenes here and there!
The scene with Luke and Biggs on Tatooine comes to mind!
But I was talking about editing in general at this point!

And yes, sometimes they do! Sometimes 90min. films seem like 3 hour movies! But that's just bad moviemaking!

 

I really appreciate this particular point, especially the way you phrased that.

Real life is often ambiguous and unresolved, leaving us with more questions than answers at times, and much of Star Wars, for all its metaphors, mythology, techology, and spectacular content, reflects so much of our own complex and restless and mystifying world in amazingly revealing ways.

Sometimes the problems are clear. Evil must be repelled, defeated. The challenge is in the answes but, for the Jedi, this very prospect of having to confront the darkness, drew them out of their idealistic meditations and views and called them into action under a false conflict manipulated by Sidious.

The Sith were also complex, driven by a dangerous instinct and achieving their ends through unnatural manipulation of the Force.

Yoda realized there were many gray areas, morally and philosophically, and, even in his many years, for all his wisdom, he could not connect enough dots in time to prevent Palpatine from overturning the galaxy and sending the Force out of balance.

In Rebels, "Shroud of Darkness" (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shroud_of_Darkness), Yoda points out the central question to Ezra Bridger: "How Jedi choose to win, the question is."

Yoda also admonishes Obi-Wan Kenobi in Episode II: Attack of the Clones, when Obi-Wan mentions "victory." Yoda replies, "Master Obi-Wan, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen."

(such meaningful "shroud" connections above!)

It will be interesting to see where Episode VIII Luke stands with regards to the Force, the First Order, Rey, and everything else after the maelstrom of events of Episode VII.

 

The issue of taking up arms to defeat a perceived evil is often the beginning of the end. The Jedi, after denying the Sith their rightful existence and thus forcing them into hiding, choose to fight them when they reappear. This does not bring about peace; this brings about the rise of the Empire.

Only when Luke throws away his lightsabre - surely the bravest act in the saga - does the Emperor's tryanny finally come to an end. He does what his mentors could not do. The Jedi always believed that the path to the dark side was a one way street. Luke recognises that someone who crosses over to the dark side can come back, that any soul can redeem itself. As old Ebeneezer himselfs recognises in A Christmas Carol: "Men's courses will foreshadow certain ends...but if the courses be departed from, the ends will change."

Clearly there wasn't too much Dickens in the Jedi library!

It remains to to be seen, then, what Luke's philosophy will be in The Last Jedi. He has seen his newfound Jedi Order wiped out by Kylo Ren and his knights. Rather than confront him, he has gone into self-imposed exile. So how will he counsel Rey in the conflict that is about to come? What course of action will he advise her to take?

 

Which comes back to the point of the point of TPM and AOTC being a waste of time really.

If the prequels had begun with an Anakin Skywalker around the same age as Luke (as ANH always hinted), then the corruption of Anakin could have been played out in a far more subtle and interesting way.

Instead, Lucas had to try and cram Anakin's entire fall into a couple of hours, which is why it looks clumsy and rushed (IMHO).

Better film makers would have realised this and not wasted two films trying to scene set.

 

Isn't Anakin's attachment picked up on by Yoda in TPM? And doesn't Anakin's attachment rear its head in key scenes in AOTC? Waste of time, eh? I don't think so.

 

Excellent and wise words Master Farkaz!

 

From a certain point of view...heheh

 

Well, Mace Windu made perhaps one mistake... he should have taken Anakin with him to arrest Palpatine!

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 23, 2017 ---

But I agree with the rest of your comment!