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OFFICIAL NEWS Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker General Movie Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Trevor, May 31, 2019.

  1. Alphabet-Wing

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    Hello, I am new here in the Cantina and I would like to give my opinion on “Rise of Skwalker.”

    Short opinion:
    Not a good movie.

    Longer opinion, in points presented in no particular order:


    Warning: MASSIVE SPOILER WARNING FOR THE ENTIRE MOVIE IS INCLUDED IN THIS LIST. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.


    1. The hunt for the McGuffins felt like useless filler. I zoned out during the explanations and don’t even know if it paid off that well. Also, why couldn’t at least one of the objects be a holocron?

    2. Hyperspace skipping is moronic. It was bad enough when the ship in the “Star Wars: The Clone Wars” Episode “Jedi Crash” jumped inside the gravitational pull of a planet but now with Poe Dameron jumping through half the galaxy and inside and outside of gravitational pulls of planets is just insulting. Interdictor-class Star Destroyers are completely useless now.

    3. This movie is at least in part an adaption of the “Legends” comic book “Dark Empire”. From all Star Wars stories out there, they had to take the one that the other “Legends” stories ignored as hard as possible. From ridiculous powerful superweapons to the Emperor being ridiculous overpowered in the force and coming back from the dead, this movie followed the spirit of “Dark Empire”.

    4. Palpatine created Snoke…. Not a good explanation and an obvious retcon. I blame “The Last Jedi” for that one.

    5. Palpatine is alive. I blame “The Last Jedi” for that one. Also heard a lot about the explanations why and how he returned and they cut them all out of the movie because the test audiences reacted very negatively too them. I agree with them, they were pretty stupid, if these reasons are true. I will not discuss it now because it could turn out to be not true but my sources are usually reliable.

    6. The politics of this universe are more than confusing. The majority seemingly doesn’t care about either the New Republic, the Resistance or the First Order at all or suddenly to an insanely helpful degree. They don’t care when Leia Organa asks for help but they come running the second Lando Calrissian starts calling for help. I know the guy has maximum stats in Charisma but the fleet he was able to gather in mere hours is ridiculous in size even with extreme lucky throws on diplomacy.

    7. I could accept force teleportation…. But not on such massive distances like shown at it happened first. Even with the Duat it looks unbelievable.

    8. Stop killing people. I mean the bad guys. That Sith Assassin Ochi of Bestoon kills Reys Parents, not even thinking about that the Emperor may want them back or that they could still be used to find Rey and the Imperials just want to execute Finn, Poe and Chewie (despite wanting to interrogate Chewie originally).

    Interrogate before killing, remember Imperials/First Order always interrogating before killing. Personally, I would keep any and all prisoners as bargaining chips for later.

    9. Why is Lando not on Bespin? The city there was obviously important to him, I can’t understand why he wouldn’t want to become Administrator of Cloud City once again. Him staying on Pasaana instead of doing something more productive and ambitious doesn’t make sense for that character. He should have been called for help instead of being already there.

    10, “They fly now?!”
    ….
    You did never pay attention in stormtrooper school, didn’t you Finn?


    11. I don’t object to force healing, it existed in the old canon but making clear it had limitations would have helped a lot.


    12. Why couldn’t the planet have been Korriban? At least a small nod to the old expanded Universe would have been appreciated here.


    13. The battle of Exegol is such a contrived final battle it defies any sort of logic. Both parties act like morons to make the drama and the flow of the battle work. Star Destroyers who can only navigate through a single navigation system and the rebels don’t attack the big main cannons who are the weak points of those ships immediately. Then The Xyston’s don’t shoot at the incoming reinforcements with their PLANET DESTROYING LASERS despite them being totally in the open and said giant reinforcement fleet being assembled in hours by Lando.


    14. Palpatines Plan of not immediately returning after dying at Endor made no sense. He could struck bad quickly against the rebellion who wouldn’t have seen his return coming. Instead he lets his empire collapse and replaces it with a worse version in form of the First and the Final Order.

    15. Xyston-Class Star Destroyers break everything, figuratively and literally. Star Destroyers who can destroy Planets make no sense because they realistically could not carry the energy for doing that and such a threat, such technology would crush any opposition for now and forever or force other factions to create similar capital ships. But in the end, these ships are a cheap and stupid way to raise the stakes.

    16. The Holdo-Maneuver is a Million in One chance to work. Great for the Discworld but bad anywhere else. Also, it is a bad explanation because hitting a giant spaceship with a smaller spaceship can’t be that hard. So many retcons… I blame “The Last Jedi” for this one as well.

    17. I am sure you need two than more Lightsabers to stop FLEET-CRIPPLING-FORCE LIGHTING! It is just so…. ARGH!”

    18. The Emperor is the most powerful Sith Lord of them all, but being able to incapacitate an entire gigantic fleet on his own absolutely insane. Why does he need anyone with that kind of power except for administrative work?

    19. Admiral Enric Pryde is the worst commanding officer in any Star Wars media. His leadership of the Sith-Fleet was one of the worst examples of strategic and tactical examples I have ever seen. He wasn’t able to get the ships out of orbit, he wasn’t able to get rid of the horse riding rebels from the hull of his ship (a slight tilt would have done the job), he didn’t use the Superlaser Weapons of his ships against the gigantic Restiance-Fleet and he was unable to change tactics when the tides turned.
    I would call him the “Anti-Thrawn”.


    20. I have no idea what to think of Rey, Poe and Finn. They lack… Something. Some better characterization, development…. It looks like it got lost in too much retcons, nostalgia and no plan. Writers of the comics, books and videogames have a LOT to fix with those three and the sequel trilogy in general.

    21. Leia’s death. I blame…. Everything and everybody (except Carrie Fisher) of how this played out in the end. Such a unworthy end for this character.

    22. C-3PO: “Taking one last look sir... at my friends.”
    Which friends? Luke and Han are dead, Leia is not with you, Chewbacca is not with you, Lando is not with you, R2-D2 YOUR BEST FRIEND IS NOT THERE WITH YOU! What in the…? What are Rey, Poe and Finn to him anyway?

    23. I can’t understand why the Sith Language is so forbidden that all the droids ever created have it programmed into them that they can’t speak out what any translation of them mean. Another forced Moment for Drama and another bad explanation.

    24. It is rather unbelievable that nobody seems to be able to get around the programming of the Sith Language ban. Hackers and programmers would have cracked that barrier the day the law was put into effect.

    25. C-3PO’s death is another forced drama. Like Chewbaccas death. And both get undone in the end. It feels so pointless and insulting.


    26. Force ghosts can influence the real material world now. That destroys everything… Like why did not a army of force ghosts just go and kill Paplatine, Vader and then helped the rebellion to beat the rest of the empire? It could have been so easy to explain it without breaking any and every past, present and future Star Wars story: Ahch-To is one of the few planets where dead Jedi can appear at any time they choose and influence the universe at will with the abilities they have. Instead we now have this mess of an explanation.

    27. And last but not least: This movie and the two before have such a bad reputation now people have a majority positive opinion of the prequels now.
    This says more than any other point.
    Actually, I like the Prequels, I have less complaints about them than most people have I think.

    There is more to say and some stuff I forgot. I could add so much more but I am running out of steam and I think I covered the most important stuff for me personally for the most part.

    In short: I really rather disliked this “The Rise of Skywalker”.

    One thing I can give the movie as a positive: They didn’t force old popular Old Expanded “Legends” Characters into the movie. I would have hated it if Thrawn had been the leader of the Sith Eternal Fleet or Mara Jade suddenly appear and saying “Hi, I am Luke’s wife, do you want to see my Kid I have with him?”

    But the latter might happen later and Thrawn will return someday no doubt about it. And the return of Kyle Katarn who protected a secret hideout of Jedi taught by Luke. And Corran Horn, alongside Wedge Antilles and the rest of the Rogue Squadron from the books. And Talon Karrde, Borsk Fey'lya and Gilad Pellaeon may also pop up in future Expanded Universe material.
     
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Someone died using it. That’s a heck of a limitation.
    The planet that was canonically renamed ‘Moraband’? Probably because people already know how to get there.
    He didn’t have that power until he absorbed that ‘dyad’ silliness. He didn’t even know that was a thing until it happened. First thing he did was make a fancy new robe though. So, priorities.
    The movie sucks because this character is bad at his job?
    Who said they couldn’t?
    Well, that’s an impressively unprovable statement.
     
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  3. Jedi Master Wysk

    Jedi Master Wysk Clone Commander

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    Perhaps Palpatine's return was planned after all...
    Snoke's attendants.png
    One of Snoke's attendants.
    Sim Aloo.jpg
    One of Palpatine's advisors.
    Praetorian Guards.jpeg
    Snoke's Elite Praetorian Guards.
    Imperial Guard.jpg
    One of Palpatine's Royal Guards.
    Dwartii ring.jpg
    Snoke's Dwartii ring.
    Dwartii statues.jpg
    Palpatine's Dwartii statues.
     
    #843 Jedi Master Wysk, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
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  4. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    Wondering if those Snoke's attendants are the same species or in the same organization or cult of the ones that we saw on Exegol's arena.
     
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  5. Jedi Master Wysk

    Jedi Master Wysk Clone Commander

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    Probably not the same species as the Sith cultists because the TLJ visual dictionary states that the attendants are 'seemingly mute', and those Sith cultists seem to like singing a lot, but they might potentially be part of the Sith Eternal because they were 'used' by various factions in the Unknown Regions.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2020 ---
    I have a theory explaining why Rey is so powerful. (Besides the fact that she is Palpatine's granddaughter)

    Perhaps she is a regen of The Chosen One/The Chosen One 2.0

    She was created by the Force to ensure that Palpatine stays dead.
     
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  6. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Kinda doubt it. I’m sure RJ was intentionally referencing Emperor iconography to evoke that atmosphere from Snoke, but probably was only meant figuratively.

    The cool thing about hindsight though is that the continuity can work that way anyhow even if that wasn’t the original design.
     
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  7. Jedi Master Wysk

    Jedi Master Wysk Clone Commander

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    That's what I thought originally, but the ring seems a little bit to much to be coincidence. But you're probably right.
     
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  8. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    The TLJ Visual Dictionary (if wookiepedia is reliable) detailed that the ring was incrusted in obsidian specifically harvested from the lava flow beneath Vader’s castle on Mustafar.

    For someone like what Snoke was originally presented as: a darksider who fetishized the Sith, that makes decent enough sense. Strictly as a meat puppet of Palpatine though, I’m not sure why he’d bother. Doesn’t totally track for me. But hey, if the story congeals better that way, why not?
     
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  9. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    In Star Wars?
    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  10. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    the longer one is better but this movie was just a film of circumstance, not of bad production.
     
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  11. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    Those two movies aren't even on the same level as each other.
     
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  12. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    I like both. But TLJ is my favorite.
     
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  13. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    Something happened in December of 2017. #TheLastJedi came out and to say it divided audiences would be putting it mildly. Not only did critics like it, it's one of the highest rated movies in the #StarWars franchise according to the them. It has an astounding 91% at #RottenTomatoes. That's baffling to me. It's not an awful movie, but the only movies I'd rank worse are the prequels; and I'm including the two spinoffs. 91%?! Are these people insane?!

    Most of the fanbase not only disliked it, but REALLY disliked it. I believe it's 43% fan score makes it the most disliked movie in the series in the fans eyes. That's also baffling to me. Have these people not seen the prequels?!

    I didn't love it or hate it. There are certain parts I liked A LOT, but it's a very slow movie with some annoyingly pointless characters and scenes, some bizarre choices in the direction it took the storyline, and felt extremely disconnected from #TheForceAwakens.

    Even the stuff I liked kinda made things difficult for whoever was going to write and direct the next movie. Killing #Snoke was shocking. It was a thrilling scene that caught EVERYONE off-guard. It has an excellent fight scene with lots of tension (and confusion) too. But since the franchise seemed hell-bent on redeeming #KyloRen, it created a pretty damn big problem for #TheRiseofSkywalker: THERE WAS NO VILLAIN. The scene was brilliant, but it completely blasted up the pace of the movie and it's future sequel. Kylo Ren didn't kill Snoke because he was a good guy helping Rey, he was just going to take over for Snoke. He wanted the power for himself. But we all knew he was going to be redeemed. This trilogy seemed adamant about that, so we all knew he would not remain the villain throughout the final chapter. So, they needed a villain and #JJAbrams did the best he could with what he was given.

    Taking that into consideration, I thought bringing #TheEmperor back was a good call. It was risky - and not exactly creative or original - but it paid off as far as I'm concerned. #Palpatine has risen from the dead and is barely being kept alive due to a combination of his #DarkSide powers (from both him and his religious zealots) and technology. I thought it was awesome how he looked like a corpse. I've seen some critics complain, "How did Palpatine survive?! He didn't! Use your head, people He brought himself back to life by sheer evil will and was barely able to do it; which is why he wanted Rey or Kylo to possesses.

    What did I like? The two lightsaber fights were fantastic. They were brief, but emotional and realistic. They weren't too over-the-top or rehearsed looking. They were well-choreographed and enjoyable. I liked the new Force powers too - and how the lightsaber fights were an extension of that. It took one of the best elements of The Last Jedi (Luke's feat ans sacrifice) and expanded on it. The movie really expanded on the lore of the series. That includes the Dark Side too. Rey and Rylo/Ben weren't the only ones showing new powers, Palpatine got to do some showing off too. I really enjoyed the expanded lore of The Force and the Sith.

    I also loved how they gave Snoke a backstory. He was nobody through the entire first movie up until his death in the second. It makes me like parts of The Last Jedi even more. It brought some cohesion to the previous movie, which felt completely disconnected to the first. JJ Abrams did a little course correcting. He didn't "ignore" or "override" anything from The Last Jedi - something critics complained about - he expanded on it. He gave it a meaning and purpose.

    The humor was also back. The Force Awakens is the funniest Star Wars movie ever made. This isn't as funny, and sure some of the stuff misses, but overall this was a pretty damn funny movie. My man #BabuFrik was comedic gold. I love that weird little guy. #C3P0 was also pretty damn funny in his own right; as was the new droid #Dio.

    This movie also made me like #Rey (#DaiseyRidley) again. I REALLY liked her in the first movie. She's so new to the whole galactic universe that it was endearing. But in the 2nd movie, she's so incredibly powerful with no explanation, that it's actually irritating. This movie explains why and how. I was RELIEVED when they said who she was.

    And even though I absolutely HATE the idea of #KyloRen finding eternal redemption, I absolutely loved the way it was executed. I don't think the character is a good guy deserving of eternal life/happiness. He's a raging sociopath. But his motivation behind why he turned himself around was very believable to me. I thought the scene between #AdamDriver and #HarrisonFord was very touching. Besides the fact that Harrison Ford didn't seem to comb his hair that day, I thought the scene was very well done. It really got to me.

    I also really enjoy Adam Driver's performance as Kylo Ren. He's an extremely angry and hateful individual. That's part of the reason I didn't want to see him redeemed. He was good at playing the villain. He's such an uncomfortable character too. He's a creeper MFer that you shudder seeing; which is kind of why you hate seeing Rey want to be with him.

    I love that #Chewie is still involved. They can't ever kill him. It'd be like killing the family dog.

    Speaking of loving a character still around, I absolutely adored #BillyDeeWilliams' return. I have no idea why he wasn't asked to be in either one of the previous two movies, but I am glad he's back. So is he too - you can see the joy in his face.

    What didn't I like? I thought the movie lagged at times. It was a little flat in spots. Nothing major, but 10-20 minutes here or there were a little slow. I also thought #CarrieFisher was a little bland. I did not love Ben's redemption, as mentioned above. And I'm just not sure what I think of #Finn (#JonBoyega) and #Poe (#OscarIsaac). They are funny an likeable, but sometimes they just try to damn hard. Their performances are a little melodramatic and not in the good #IanMcDiarmid kind of way. I also didn't love the new character who I basically viewed as the new Rose. The girl who helped Finn and Poe and was shoehorned into the final battle? Her involvement just felt so forced and unnatural. I also hated the Rey and Ben romance. Like...why? She hates him. HATES HIM. But also wants to save his soul? Get outta here with that.

    I have some issues with this movie, but overall I really enjoyed it. It's fun, a satisfying conclusion to this trilogy, and managed to make me like the previous movie even more.

    Rating: Thumbs up.

    This review was written for your reading pleasure on December 31, 2019.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2020 ---
    I'm not telling you that you can't like something, but you're in the extreme minority. Critics vs. fans are the exact opposite with those two movies.
     
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  14. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    I always was inclined for critics, at least the majority of them has similar tastes or have some interpretation that is much alike of my way of seeing movies in general.
     
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  15. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

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    Also, critic ratings are a lot harder to hate-bomb with fake accounts and such (i.e. they are not BS like fan ratings sometimes are)
     
    #855 Angelman, Apr 29, 2020
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  16. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    1. I don't outright dismiss all of the critics even when I disagree with them. That's just too convenient and akin to sticking your fingers in your ears.

    2. I DID bring up fan and critic reviews. The difference in opinions between TLJ and TROS amongst fans was pretty obvious.
     
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  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    This is not a factually accurate statement.

    The degree to which The Last Jedi divided the Star Wars fanbase has been grossly overexaggerated and inflated.

    I would also point out that the Rotten Tomatoes audience score for The Last Jedi is not an accurate assessment of how that film was received because it has been proven through independent data analysis that a tiny handful of disgruntled and unhappy Star Wars fans - aided by foreign Bots - intentionally and deliberately hacked the Rotten Tomatoes website in order to inflate the number of negative audience ratings that TLJ received.
     
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  18. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    You don't even need independent analysis.
    Rotten Tomatoes itself stated that TLJ and a few others provoked them to change their system's rules going forward..so...yeah.

    Further disc sales for TLJ were higher than R1...so...I guess if fans were massively unhappy with TLJ, they were at least as ticked off by R1?



    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #858 Jayson, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Every scientific survey of people who have seen The Last Jedi has shown the overwhelming majority of people liked the film. The odd phenomenon to me is is that people on the internet are 100% convinced everyone hated it. I say this about everything... you cannot measure what the general public thinks about something based on what you read online.

    Now that we're 5 months after TROS my final feelings are this... it's a fun film. The best parts of the film are the moments between Poe, Finn, Rey, and C3PO. I don't hate any Star Wars film. The story in the final part of the trilogy just doesn't do much for me. I'm convinced that without Fisher it was always going to be a difficult talk. Leia and Ben Solo never talk in this trilogy. Leia training Rey and having a final meeting with Ben Solo would have helped a lot.

    All that said, I would love to see more stories from these characters. Finn and Rey traveling the galaxy to ID new force users. Make it happen.
     
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  20. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    Literally a factual statement. It's the lowest rated movie by fans on almost all major outlets:

    The Phantom Menace has a 53% and 59% at Rotten Tomatoes.
    AOTC has a 65% and 56% there.
    ROTS has an 80% and 66%

    The Force Awakens has a 93% and 86% at Rotten Tomatoes.
    TLJ has a 91% and 43% there.
    TROS has a 52% and 86%.

    The Phantom Menace has scores of 51 and 6.1 at Metacritic.
    AOTC has a 54 and 6.0
    ROTS has a 66 and 7.7.
    That's a 57 from critics and 6.6 from fans.

    The Force Awakens has an 80 and 6.8 at Metacritic.
    The Last Jedi has an 84 and a 4.3.
    The Rise of Skywalker has 53 and 4.8.

    From IMDB:
    TPM - 6.5
    AOTC - 6.5
    ROTS - 7.5

    TFA - 7.9
    TLJ - 7.0
    TROS - 6.7
    --- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2020, Original Post Date: May 11, 2020 ---
    Like movie review websites? Because it's the lowest rated movie on almost all of the major review outlets. The only one it isn't is IMDB.
     
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