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SPECULATION SW:TFA Inspired by Myths in Ovid's Metamorphoses—Kylo Ren as the Raven, Poe Dameron as the Peacock,

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by WeWhoSurvived, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Mythology as inspiration for the film? See the reddit post here complete with citation links:



    Some elements of Star Wars: The Force Awakens may have been influenced by mythology, specifically Ovid’s Metamorphoses, which is a compilation of several myths that includes the Greek/Roman gods that share the theme of Transformation, of changing physical characteristics—and the characters themselves—into a new form. For instance, the Raven was cursed to be black, and the peacock receiving the hundred eyes of Argus in its tail. This, I believe, is a potential link with TFA. Hear me out.

    The Significance of Mythology and Ovid’s Metamorphoses on Language and Storytelling
    Consider this quote regarding the influence of Ovid’s epic masterpiece, particularly in regards to historical and contemporary influence on storytelling itself, rivaled only by the Old Testament and Shakespeare.


    Inspiration for the Filmmakers?
    I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Ardnt, Abrams, and Kasdan et al might’ve been tempted to tap story ideas from that same well-spring for material, namely the Bible itself. Hell, a flaming sword wielded by winged angels goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden/Paradise in Genesis, and Lucas clearly tapped that as source material. They may tap the Bible again, sure, especially the Old Testament (JJ and Larry Kasdan have Jewish roots, so the OT isn’t out of the question). But did they tap the original epics for story ideas? The Odyssey? The Aeneid? Even Ovid’s Metamorphoses? Star Wars has been called a modern-day myth, and it's certainly been influenced thus far by epic mythology. It’s not just a family soap opera in space. Big themes of good and evil are at play. It would make sense that the filmmakers would want to perpetuate Star Wars as an epic story of good and evil. What better place to get ideas than the classical epics? (Note: I agree with others that JJ et al are going to explore the gray area more, similar to what Game of Thrones has done, exploring the area in between the dark and the light with characters struggling between both. I would love the Knights of Ren to be a hybrid, in between, using both the Dark and the Light, though they may be purely dark side users. Many gods in the epic poems were supposedly good then do something unscrupulous, impulsive and maligned in their self-interest.

    The First Clue Pointing to Ovid’s Metamorphoses: Character Names
    When the first character name cards were released, I began researching the meaning of the names we were given on those trading cards: Poe Dameron, Kylo Ren, Rey, and Finn. Sure, much has been written about these names already, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that speculation. I actually think a lot of it is correct, but I felt there was something deeper to these character names, especially Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron. Obviously, we know Ren is a surname Kylo aquired later after becoming one of the Knights of Ren. JJ said so. And really, that’s been such a fantastic idea for the past little while that it has all of us buzzing with questions and anticipation…the future is wide open with this idea of the Knights of Ren thing plus the potential connection with the Acolytes of the Beyond and ideas of Vader worshippers, all of which suggests a more religious, even extremist, terroristic type of threat compounded by the rumor that they’re equipped with weapons of mass destruction (eg, the Starkiller Catapult). But before discussing the potential links to mythology as inspiration for the film, let’s look at the names of Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron more closely than we have before:

    In the Name Kylo Ren: The Dark Bird, "The Raven,” the Victorious One, “Church”?
    “Ren”:
    A closer look at the etymology of “Kylo Ren” reveals that Ren actually means "Ruler" in Welsh and "Raven" in English. It means "Rebirth" or "Born Again" in Latin, and "Clean" in Norwegian. So there’s definitely a religious connotation to it, as well. Ren also might be a short form of LawRENce, and a less colloqial, less common version of "Larry." Can't have another "Larry" in the Star Wars Universe, except for Lawrence Kasdan, can you? :) Yes, I believe that Lawrence Kasdan is inserting his own name into the series as a personal signature/legacy type of thing. The Knights of Ren will now always be The Knights of LawRENce. The root of “ren” is the Latin “re-” meaning “again, back, anew, against.” Ren is therefore in a number of other interesting words, like “reverence” (to stand in awe of, respect, honor, fear), recurRENce, RENder, surRENder, refeRENce, prefeRENce, tRENd, curRENt, undercurRENt, phRENetic (or schizophRENic), peRENnial, paRENt, NazaRENe, appRENtice, stRENgth, seRENity, siREN, wREN and wRENch among many other uses of the word stem “ren” that can be affixed (prefixed, suffixed, transfixed, etc.) to create new words or derivations. The fact that the filmmakers chose “ren,” a word stem that goes way, way back, demonstrates a deeper understanding of its origin, meaning and use in language. It has a lot more application in language than say “sith,” which means “after that, since, later". In myth from Ovid’s Metamorphoses, the Raven was once a bird with white feathers, but its color was transformed to sooty black, and forbidden to perch among the white birds. Kylo Ren is certainly wearing black and part of his over-cloak looks to be torn or deliberately designed to be "feathery," which conjures to mind a bird's plumage, and since it's black, the plumage of a raven. Perhaps this next part of the saga is the story of Kylo Ren transforming back into a white bird. But at what cost? Or perhaps he's damned to be a raven.

    “Kylo”: It’s been discussed by many already that Kylo may be the combination of “SKYwalker” and SoLO, which I think is quite plausible and probably correct. First, a number of other names end in “o” in the Star Wars Universe. Lando. Greedo. Teedo. Beedo. Teebo. Sim Aloo. Max Rebo. Kata Koio. Solo. Even Threepio! So KylO, certainly fits in this Universe. But Kylo is also one letter away from Kyle, a name whose meaning would also fit very, very well. In English, Kyle means “Victorious.” And, interestingly, in Gaelic or Irish, Kyle is more of a description of a place, specifically "a wood or a church." The wood? Meaning the forest? Well, the snow forest scene from the first teaser immediately comes to mind. But church? Based on rumors we’ve all heard already, I definitely think there’s a religious aspect to the Knights of Ren, something sacred. But back to the first definition “Victorious.” Achieving victory is also certainly a desired outcome of any great warrior. And throughout history (and historical fiction), many warriors were certainly religious, pious, disciplined (or perhaps undisciplined). The Crusades comes to mind. So does Excalibur. Oh, and in Scottish, Kyle means "narrows," "straight" or "channel." And the root “Kyl” is in the dinosaur name ankylosaurus, from Greek ankylos meaning "crooked" and Jekyll, from Jekyll and Hyde, “the story of two completely separate personalities, one good and one evil, that share a body and are at war with each other.” Do any of these have something to do with why Kylo was selected? I certainly wonder.

    In the Name Poe Dameron: Royal Bird of Light?
    “Dameron”:
    In MSW Podcast 58 (@6:15), Jason commented on some emails he received from fans in France saying that Dameron means effeminate young male and would be “the worst name I’ve ever heard for a hero.” I’d agree. But it must be pointed out that’s what it might mean in contemporary French culture. In OLD FRENCH, however, “Dameron” is a derivative of the Latin dominus, meaning “Lord” or “Master.” Could Dameron be a name denoting status, or perhaps even royalty? Like “Organa”? And, of course, we know JJ Abrams used Dameron because it was his long-time personal assistant Morgan’s last name (Morgan Dameron), a Bad Robot employee. Another seemingly tangential but related aside, Rebecca Dameron was a writer/producer of the TV Series The Following, a Fox drama series about a serial killer English professor obsessed with Edgar Allan POE (played by James Purefoy) and who has a cult following of copycat killers. He is chased by Kevin Bacon’s character. Once upon a time, Kevin Bacon played a character in Footloose and his name was … can you guess it? Ren. Yeah. :) But speaking of Poe…

    “Poe”: Poe is a nickname from Old Norse or other meaning “peacock,” meaning “a vain or flamboyantly dressed person.” Is Poe Dameron vain or flamboyant? What does he say? “He’s the best frickin’ pilot in the galaxy.” But here’s a potential historical association with Poe or “peacock” that might be a more plausible explanation of this name, and it can be traced back to myth, specifically from Greek mythology. Juno (Hera), Queen of the gods, is often depicted armed and sitting or standing with a peacock, her favorite bird, whose tail contains the hundred eyes of Argus (many eyes suggests he’s a special watch guard or spy, and eyes are full of light as to be able to see, rendering the peacock a bird of light, and light itself contains all its many colors, as evidenced by the bird's plumage). Leia has also been rumored to be a Queen. Not just that, an armed General. Armed with a super-weapon, a so-called “Sledgehammer” that reportedly rips through Star Destroyers like a knife through butter. Who is Leia’s favorite bird, her little peacock? None other than Poe Dameron, the showy, cocky pilot. Poe is also one letter short of the words “Poem” or “Poet.” Is this a nod to the great poet Ovid and others?

    So, to recap:
    • Kylo Ren = Raven, Sacred, Victorious, and the Raven used to be white
    • Poe Dameron = Peacock, Royal Bird of Light
    Now Consider several lines from Ovid’s Metamorphoses (Book 2). A link with TFA?

    The Queen’s Bird

    “Her gawdy peacocks drew her through the skies.
    Their tails were spotted with a thousand eyes;
    The eyes of Argus on their tails were rang’d,
    At the same time the raven’s colour chang’d.”​

    Creation of the Raven, the Black Bird
    “The raven once in snowy plumes was drest,
    White as the whitest dove’s unsully’d breast,
    Fair as the guardian of the Capitol,
    Soft as the swan; a large and lovely fowl;
    His tongue, his prating tongue had chang’d him quite
    To sooty blackness, from the purest white.”​

    Secret Rival Joined? Snoke?
    “But his own bird the raven chanc’d to find
    The false one with a secret rival joyn’d.”

    “And saw the monstrous infant, in a fright,
    And call’d her sisters to the hideous sight:
    A boy’s soft shape did to the waste prevail,
    But the boy ended in a dragon’s tail.”​

    A Raven Offended and Enraged
    “The raven, urg’d by such impertinence,
    Grew passionate, it seems, and took offence,
    And curst the harmless daw; the daw withdrew:
    The raven to her injur’d patron flew,
    And found him out, and told the fatal truth
    Of false Coronis and the favour’d youth."​

    Snatched Child Cared for by Chiron the Centaur in a Cave
    “But lest his offspring should her fate partake,
    Spight of th’ immortal mixture in his make,
    He ript her womb, and set the child at large,
    And gave him to the centaur Chiron’s charge:
    Then in his fury black’d the raven o’er,
    And bid him prate in his white plumes no more.”​

    “…but he snatched the child from the flames and from the womb of his mother, and carried him into the cave of the two-formed Chiron. And he forbade the raven, expecting for himself the reward of his tongue that told no untruth, to perch any longer among the white birds.”​

    Caves and Cyclops
    I saw some concept art of an X-wing flying into a cave pursued by a TIE. Perhaps this is at the end of the film where Poe or some other pilot makes an underground Death Star-type run through the caverns of the snow planet that houses the catapult? In teaser trailer 2 we see Captain Phasma walking down a hallway with noticeable rocks – perhaps Starkiller base is mostly underground. Perhaps Kylo grew up in the care of Snoke in these caves?

    In myth, the Cyclops also lived in a cave. Take a closer look at Kylo Ren’s mask. One eye. Look at Phasma, the TIE pilots and all flavors of new Stormtroopers. The eye lenses are connected. We already know from other concept art that a cave is significant. In myth, the three Cyclopes forged one of the mightiest of weapons of Zeus: the thunderbolt.

    Immortality? Reanimating the Dead? “Thy daring art shall animate the dead, and draw the thunder on thy guilty head”

    From Metamorphoses Book 2, the story of “Ocyrrhoe transform’d into a Mare”:

    “Old Chiron took the babe with secret joy,
    Proud of the charge of the celestial boy.
    His daughter too, whom on the sandy shore
    The nymph Charicle to the centaur bore,
    With hair dishevel’d on her shoulders, came
    To see the child, Ocyrrhoe was her name;

    She knew her father’s arts, and could rehearse
    The depths of prophecy in sounding verse.
    Once, as the sacred infant she survey’d,
    The God was kindled in the raving maid,
    And thus she utter’d her prophetick tale:
    “Hail, great physician of the world, all-hail;
    Hail, mighty infant, who in years to come
    Shalt heal the nations, and defraud the tomb;
    Swift be thy growth! thy triumphs unconfin’d!
    Make kingdoms thicker, and increase mankind.

    Thy daring art shall animate the dead,
    And draw the thunder on thy guilty head:
    Then shalt thou dye, but from the dark abode
    Rise up victorious, and be twice a God.
    And thou, my sire, not destin’d by thy birth
    To turn to dust, and mix with common earth,
    How wilt thou toss, and rave, and long to dye,
    And quit thy claim to immortality;
    When thou shalt feel, enrag’d with inward pains,
    The Hydra’s venom rankling in thy veins?
    The Gods, in pity, shall contract thy date,
    And give thee over to the pow’r of Fate.”​

    Other thoughts:
    • Raven is pretty damn close to Revan. No, I don’t think Kylo Ren is Revan. I’m just saying it’s close.
    • Does anyone read Plagueis from the above excerpts? Chiron may be Snoke or Plageuis, perhaps.
    • I don’t think TFA is just going to be a rehash of Ovid’s Metamorphoses. I’m suggesting that it may have been used as inspiration for source material minus the sexuality of gods impregnating nymphs and humans.
     
    #1 WeWhoSurvived, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  2. walnut the wise

    walnut the wise Rebel General

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    Impressive...most impressive. I enjoyed your deep dive write up. Did you study literature, or just a hobby? That's some intensive analysis right there.
     
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  3. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Bachelor of Science, Mass Communication (Journalism and Public Relations)
    Master of Public Health

    I analyze clinical research stuff for a living ... and I happen to like words ... as long as I use them in the right order, that is. I hesitate to reveal this stuff because I'm finding errors I made in that post!
     
    #3 WeWhoSurvived, Sep 23, 2015
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  4. Kryptic Mind

    Kryptic Mind Rebel Official

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    Nice post but i fail to see the real TFA connection here . Just vague bits and pieces. I take it from your opening that you know what the myth which this part of the poem is about but at the same time get the feeling you just pick out words and phrases like Secret Rival , Cave , Raven , Peacock , from a text written in old verse that hardly anyone can understand ,and then connect from there which makes it feel a bit coincidental and vague.

    Context. (seem to be many versions of the same myth ,Phoebus instead of Apollo etc... i just compiled a ehm...ruff summary)

    One of Apollos lovers , a mortal named Coronis has an affair when he is away . The white bird who he left to guard her informs this to Apollo (despite being adviced not to do so) Apollo then is enraged that the bird didn't bus a cap on this "secret rival"s ass . He curse out the bird so hard that the feathers turn black (and that kids is why all ravens are black!) . Apollo is a b**ch and sends his sister to kill Coronis cause he can't do it himself. Afterwards when he has calmed down and his ex lover is on the funeral pile he goes "oh s**t! , almost forgot!!" and ask Hermes to cut out his unborn son from her womb . Hermes then brings the dead Coronis soul to a place even further down below then Hades/Hell. (nice one mate...)

    The son who was named Asklepios - "to cut open" was then brought to the wise centaur Chiron (a divine teacher of sorts) to be raised. Chirons weirdo daughter lays a prophecy when she sees the baby and says it will turn out to be a great healer , greater then Chiron , even capable of raising the dead. While she is at it she also predicts how her immortal dad will die (?!!) . Apollo for some reason gets pissed again and turns her into a horse , she also loses the ability to speak.

    Asklepios sure enough turns out to be a great healer , even greater then Chiron cause he learned secret knowledge from a snake (OMG SNOKE CONFIRMED!!). And it just goes on and on in absurdities like most ancient myths usually do (was weed popular back then?). For example , in one version Asklepios is killed by Zeus cause he raises to many dead and they need some population control LOL!


    BTW . Im really not trying to be a dick here . I speak speculation'lish fluently myself and your thread made an interesting fun read but i think when connecting the dots to these particular texts in the way you presented it , it feels a bit too farfetched for me. However i will not dismiss ancient Greek myths and poems from roman times as inspiration cause lets face it what story is not inspired by them nowadays in one way or the other. I bet there can be tons of connections drawn from ancient texts if you put your mind to it cause they are all so wacky , dark and rich . Even the ruff translation i just provided turned out to be kind of contra productive to my case cause i realise now it is filled with lots of Star Wars story elements that you can connect in all types of combinations . *face palms* :oops:
    Who knows what was in JJ and Kasdans minds when they where writing this movie but my gut feeling tells me it was mostly based in something more grounded and closer to home. Especially after reading the EW interview with JJ describing the inspiration for some of the names, a character from his favourite obscure sci fi show ,his daughters polar bear Poe and things like that. Perhaps some of the names have deeper meanings but sometimes that is just coincidental , as JJ explains they where throwing different ones around and some just feelt right and sticked after a while. Kind of like how parents name their kids. For example im Swedish myself and my name derives from old Norse and has a kingly very powerful meaning which make me sound like freakin Aragorn or something but im pretty sure that is not what my parents had in mind. It just felt right. I realise writing characters for a script and naming a kid is two different things , but judging from JJ's comments they don't always seem to have taken the deeper route. That is just my feeling anyways. Carry on ...

    EDIT: Ren means clean or pure in Swedish same as Norwegian but the same word also means Reindeer . I think we can all rule out that meaning though... :)
    upload_2015-9-23_10-20-40.png
     
    #4 Kryptic Mind, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
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  5. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    You're not being a dick. Really, thank you for that lengthy, well-put response. Your points are gladly taken. In response, I'd like to draw your attention to the very last point I made in the post:
    • "I don’t think TFA is just going to be a rehash of Ovid’s Metamorphoses. I’m suggesting that it may have been used as inspiration for source material minus the sexuality of gods impregnating nymphs and humans.
    I'd also like to draw your attention to my very first sentence:

    "Some elements of Star Wars: The Force Awakens may have been influenced by mythology, specifically Ovid’s Metamorphoses..."

    To reiterate, I said "some elements" ... "may have been influenced by mythology." May. Or they may NOT have been influenced. Or they may. :) It's up to the reader to decide.

    But here's the thing...here we have a movie, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and we're all very eagerly awaiting it. We have hopes. We have expectations.

    But here's the other thing...I just finished describing that I saw a correlation, a very simple one, that Ren = Raven and Poe = Peacock, and I cited an epic poem from classical antiquity that contain both personifications in the very same epic book of a multi-book compilation that contains other classical epic poems. Where else does this occur in classical literature? As far as I know, nowhere else. Therefore, this is an association that shouldn't be casually disregarded until data becomes sufficient to rule it out (such as the case with another trailer, but more likely after we can see the film itself). It seems to me it's not a random correlation. It's beyond chance alone. And as of right now, to me, it fits.

    But should it be accepted as truth? Of course not. Why? Because I'm NOT presenting it as truth. I'm presenting it as speculation. I saw correlations. So I did some research. I saw more correlations and continued researching. Then I found even more stuff. In fact, I found so much interesting stuff that could potentially be real, meaningful elements drawn as inspiration by the filmmakers of TFA that I decided to post here because I had to share it with my brahs ... I knew you'd enjoy it, no matter how plausible or implausible it seemed.

    I have some questions for you: What of what I wrote was most plausible? What was least plausible?
     
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  6. Kryptic Mind

    Kryptic Mind Rebel Official

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    Fair enough .
    Damn! i would like to give you a lengthier reply but i have to run of to work now and won't be home until late tonight.

    To be continued.... ;)
     
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  7. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    No problem, my Swedish brother. :)
     
  8. Ralok-one

    Ralok-one Rebel Official

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    why isnt there a "confused" rating, for when I read something and am friggin beffuddled as hell.

    Its a movie about spacewizards with lazer swords man... you dont have to like... write an essay to prove its something good for a growed up to like

    Just enjoy the film for goodness sake.
     
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  9. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    FOR GOODNESS Friggin SAKE....

    I will enjoy the film and I hope you will, too.
     
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  10. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel Official

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    Well that devolved rapidly...


    Anyhoo,

    To a great extent, all compelling myths spring from the monomyth as described by Campbell. We know that Lucas used Campbell as source material, as well as Kurosawa, spaghetti westerns, Flash Gordon, etc...

    A really fascinating bit of critical historical research along these lines was "The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark" by Macdonald.

    The point being that the universal themes we identify with, the Jungian archetypes if you will, inform and guide storytellers today, as they have since humans have been telling stories.

    This was a well written bit of speculation, and if nothing else shows how a portmanteau language like English draws from many sources and can lead to connections that if weren't intended by the writers, are very real none the less.

    My suspicion is that if Kasdan and JJ intended us to make very deep connections to mythological themes they would have been more obvious about it. The Matrix encouraged the Geeky end of the fan base to go back and research names that they may have recognized but did not have a firm grasp of: Morpheus, Seraph, The Oracle, etc.

    Cheers to WeWhoSurvived for being one of the very few people following TFA closely that could even see these possible connections. It would be really fun to find out that he was correct and then dive into this topic after we see the film and try and glean something of the rest of the story arc using this method, but I don't have high confidence that this will be the case.
     
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  11. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    You cant deny the initiatic part of Star Wars.

    It's not just about SpaceShips and Lazer swords. It is much more than that. It's a journey. A tale of dark and light. And that's why it is popular because it talks to everyone inner soul.
     
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  12. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Lazlo, very insightful and clever commentary, including "connections ... that are very real nonetheless." You get it! And I appreciate the praise. I don't know if you're the same person on Reddit yesterday who replied to another one of my comments ... someone raised the influence of Joseph Campbell, and you're certainly invoking Campbell here again. Before I wrote the Ovid connection last week, I had only been passively familiar with The Power of Myth and a link to Star Wars. And I hadn't picked that up for 20 years, and it was at a bookstore nonetheless. But later yesterday evening I downloaded Campbell's book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" and other general Internet research on him. I confess I probably should've made that connection earlier and included it in my analysis. It's illuminating. In that book, Ovid is cited numerous times along with all the others. If I were to write a more in-depth essay (I won't), I'd certainly cite Campbell and do a lit search of recent authors. But no need to do that.

    Very interesting about Macdonald, especially the Gospel of Mark. A New Testament connection is interesting. I'll see if I can get that book. As I mentioned in my first post, there are other potential sources such as the Old Testament and Shakespeare, but I didn't want to explore those because I wanted to focus on those lines from Ovid's Metamorphoses. I actually think the Excalibur theory proposed by Revanite on this forum I believe (I saw it second-hand on Reddit) is probably another source of inspiration and I anticipate the Medieval, Crusader-type imagery in TFA (from what we've seen thus far) will continue.

    "My suspicion is that if Kasdan and JJ intended us to make very deep connections to mythological themes they would have been more obvious about it." Well they want it to stand alone as an original film and look as if it's not heavily borrowed from any one thing in particular so they don't get accused of being lazy and copying from any one source. They aspire to produce original content, just as any artist does, but they aspire to make references. JJ has said that he's tried to be cheeky with some references to other parts of the Star Wars Universe, but he was very careful to not overdo it. Likewise, they may paint hints of inspiration from other sources with small brush strokes while they boldly craft what they believe to be an original vision for a modern day audience. There's no way I intended to say that the filmmakers are not endeavoring for originality, only that they may have looked at the epic myths and picked and chose some elements they felt would drive or fit the objectives of the trilogy. I'm only pointing out a few potential correlations. There are likely to be many more ... in the far reaches of space.
     
    #12 WeWhoSurvived, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
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  13. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Wow....ok...well we all have our own source material that we like to link to Star Wars...that's the beauty of speculation, and here we have another prime example.

    On another topic, I see where @Ralok-one was "befuddled" as he (in no way) see's the link, because he has his own source and theory to bridge to...and I didn't find that his calm was damaged, or that he was trolling. He just either doesn't see or agree with the theory. I personally saw this thread yesterday, and continued on my way because this wasn't the theory that I was looking for.

    Now let's get past the potential rock-throwing and get on with the speculation. Thanks.
     
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  14. Ralok-one

    Ralok-one Rebel Official

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    Being confused, is not being not-nice.

    And its not that I didnt see where the person was coming from, I was just highly confused because of how elaborate it was.
     
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  15. Darth Lexor Kai

    Darth Lexor Kai General of the Future Folk

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    you see that? this should have been what you started with... because what you had written above can be interpreted as rude and inconsiderate to the author of this article.

    and now back to the subject. :D
     
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  16. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    It's alright, dude. And you're right, it is elaborate. My writing style could've been more concise, but I wanted my thought process to be transparent, detailed and fleshed out enough to support the notion that mythology may have been used for the overall story. To what degree (if any) remains to be seen. The length of my post ... yeah, some may react just to it simply because of the length as information overload. As a result, many will just skim through it and not want to dive into details that are acknowledged to be just speculative anyway and not be into it. That's totally okay by me.
     
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  17. pulanpizda

    pulanpizda Rebel Trooper

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    OMg now it all makes sense - kylo ren - kylo grey (neither a jedi or a sith) - kylo gren - kilogram. Mind blown. It's a sign for the US to adopt the metric system.
    Dude you rock!
    But maybe, just maybe, you should stop doing drugs...
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2015 ---
     
    #17 pulanpizda, Sep 24, 2015
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  18. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    I'm surprised no one commented on the cyclops observation and all the helmets of the FO, including KR. :( I shouldn't have buried that part near the end with select excerpts from Metamorphoses. But I'm interested to hear what people think.
     
  19. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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  20. Yoda 2

    Yoda 2 Rebel Official

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    image.jpeg
     
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