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Swords and melee fighting in SW and real life

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by Star Dude, Aug 10, 2017.

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What’s your favorite melee fight scene from all the Star Wars movies so far?

  1. Darth Maul vs. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon on Naboo

    10 vote(s)
    31.3%
  2. Count Dooku vs. Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda on Geonosis

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  3. Count Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan on board the Invisible Hand

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  4. Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidius on Coruscant

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Yoda vs. Darth Sidius on Coruscant

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan on Mustafar

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  7. Chirrut Imwe against Stormtroopers on Jedha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Luke vs. Darth Vader on Cloud City

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%
  9. Luke vs. Darth Vader on the 2nd Death Star

    7 vote(s)
    21.9%
  10. Kylo vs. Finn and Rey near Starkiller Base

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%
  1. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Dear Cantina fellows,

    as it has turned out over time, there’s quite a bunch of us out here who have an enthusiastic view both on historic blade weapons, fancy lightsabers and their application. But if your cup of tea is more of the axe, hammer, ball-and-chain, spear, naginata or whatever type, you’re welcome too!

    So let’s have a place to discuss Kylo’s sword technique, the weapons of Snoke’s Praetorians and much more!

    Or just show around your $2,167 precious replica of a Brescia Spadona.

    I’m confident that @GreyLo and @AstromechRecords will join the fray right away, please point others from whom you know that they e.g. are friends of HEMA or have any other interest in this area, please point them in this direction.

    So let the games begin!
     
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Next time I am in texas I can show off my limited collection with new blade lights and batteries, but I think that Kylo is a little "b*tch when it comes to his combat style as if he is swinging a broad sword to attempt to create maximum damage because he hasnt been properly trained in offensive moves, maybe Luke played it safe and showed him that Jedi should normally parry in defensive moves...Ben knows what he is doing too/we see what he knows he is doing from his own POV internally instead of externally like in every other SW movie.
     
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  3. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Do you mean when you’re in Texas or we? I’m not sure when I get there the next time!?
     
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Yeah when all of you are in texas :p
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 10, 2017 ---
    I meant me.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2017 ---
    The next time I visit my house.
     
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  5. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    On Kylos fighting style: He’s an overconfident and very aggressive fighter who relies on his advantage in height to press the attack with powerful blows. His only tactic against Finn seems to be ‘overwhelm that food soldier’ with just brute force while putting strikes down on him from all directions like a hail storm.

    He even seems to enjoy this situation as he let Finn stand longer then he need to, maybe to amass more anger and hate to fill up his dark force batteries after have emptied them by controlling the deadly hip wound and force blasting Rey into a tree before.

    But as soon as Finn shows any sign of resistance, even wounding him, Kylo just end’s the fight once and for all.

    He clearly does not use Form V, Shien - Djem So, as Grandpa and his uncle did.

    Edit: I wonder how he earned the name 'Jedi killer' with that level of fighting?!
     
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  6. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    I am here....sorry. was having a pm with a friend that needs my support :)
    I will read all this and try to contribute if i can....but...after lunch!!! Am making salmon baked in cream and potato salad!!!
     
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  7. Grand Master Jacob

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    Kylo Rene light saber is based on ancient technology. As shown in Star Wars Rebals, Ezra finds a lightsaber exactly the same as Kylos lightsaber, but green.
     
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  8. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Finn likes a bait and switch tactic, the switch being his overconfidence and failing.
     
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  9. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    God he is so intense. Takes her seriously...whoa.

    [​IMG]

    I love the fight cuz it looks real to me :)
     
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  10. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    The funny thing is that John Boyega and Daisy Ridley were afraid of Driver's fighting style. Apparently he used his full power. I wonder how many props Driver destroyed. Haha!
     
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  11. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    Lol...not everyone takes his job seriously these days...not AD tho...he IS Kylo Ren. :D
    I dunno...i think its comendable. If theres anything i dislike (besides arrogance) then it is bleakness
    *shudders at the thought*
     
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  12. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    Daisy said Rey held her own against Kylo Ren, but Daisy herself did not hold her own against Adam, and if not for a sudden adrenaline rush, she would not have made it.
     
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  13. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    Strength vs strength? He should fall in love with Phasma then :D
     
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  14. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    At least they are friends in real life lol
     
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  15. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    See what he is doing here? Although being in a real adrenalin rush with his caveman mind switched to attack mode (there’s only one other, ”flee”), he has enough control (unconsciously?) to end up in a save stance.

    By the end of his swing, his blade is still in front of his body between him and the opponent, while the pointy end is more or less targeted at her face. That’s the best way to do it for protection or counter attack. You see that at the end, he’s a bit out of balance with his feed, but should the other one try a funny move on him, or even start to pirouette ;), he has a beneficial starting position.

    Done like a real swordsman, my kudos to the choreographer!

    (yoda)
     
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  16. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    I dont know why people seem to think kylo is a bad swordfighter.
    This what you said is so true. He was never in any danger from Finn. He was playing with him. And the moment he decided its enough...Finn went down. In one move.

    He is relentless in his strikes. Fast and furious. He can afford to be reckless and do dangerous moves cuz he has the Force manipulation ability as well.
    Here...Finn gets through in my opinion only because of Ren's distraught emmotional condition. I so very much cant wait to see his fighting style when he is his more composed unwounded self.
    giphy.gif

    Can you elaborate on it some more, please? I dont watch rebels :)
    Was this design found in an ancient Jedi or a Sith temple?

    Finn doesnt have a sword fighting technique. He never wielded a lightsaber before in his life. His moves in this fight are
    Runing mindlessly with no back up yelling silly phrases like Come and get it and Aaaaaaaaaa. Then backing away under the sheere Force (ha!) of Kylo's strikes, screaming like a baby and landing a lucky shot that gets him cut down.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2017 ---
    Exactly....i love this fight. It is sooooo real. And only looks like its unpolished and crude. But if you focus on the details...the moves...he is quite a good swordfighter I think. I cant wait to see him fighting more composed. I would so very much like if it was a fight with Rey in which she loses this time:)
     
    #16 Greywalker, Aug 11, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  17. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Well, there’s an ancient battlefield on the Sith planet of Malachor they visit. Amongst the petrified remains of the Jedi and Sith combatants, the ground is littered with lots of cross guard lightsabers, at least some of them still working.
    ezraX.jpg

    Let’s put it that way: At least he does not use any finesse against Finn, but he don’t have to as he’s the one in control during this exchange most of the time.

    Finn might not have any experience with lightsaber dueling, but he knows for sure the basic principles of melee combat like distancing, arc of attack, evasive action in combination with an attack, grappling etc. This will help him in a way to use any kind of melee weapon to a basic degree.
     
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  18. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    The Jedi and the Sith are more alike than most like to think. Just like Sidious said.
    What strikes me funny here is that the Sith seem to be more aware of that fact than the Jedi. The Jedi just dismiss their arrogance when in fact...apart from ob1 in ot and yoda in pt and ot, all of the Jedi are freakingly and annoyingly arrogant. Just...look at Windu for one.
    That's where Yoda felt his failure lies, i think. Having an order that is goverened by vanity moreso than compassion.

    Do you think he has finesse?

    That makes sense. Stormtroopers probably have basic meele combat training. Specially if you observe his reactions in the fight with tr8r.
     
    #18 Greywalker, Aug 11, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  19. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Rethinking this morning the fighting style so far from Kylo, I came to this:
    • It looked more powerful and professional to what we’ve seen in the OT (lightsabers should behave like metal weapons with momentum)
    • It looked way less flashy and acrobatic then the PT (lightsabers behaved like lightweight bamboo sticks)

    If people complain about his lame style, I guess they have been ‘spoiled’ by the PT as this now doesn’t meets their expectations anymore.

    Except for the glorious skills of Ray Park (Darth Maul, who has to slow down his movement quite a bit for the other actors to be able to stand a chance), most of the PT choreography included way too much spinning, whirling and jumping. It looks cool, but would do you no good in a real fight.

    So going along with his “claymore” cross guard saber Kylo uses a style that’s closer to original European sword fighting while Obi-Wan in the PT mostly showed movements you would expect more from a Tennis player then a fighter.

    So I guess the ‘finesse’ might depend on the eye of the beholder.

    J.J. wanted to re-capture G. Lucas original definition for the OT of lightsaber to have a significant weight and momentum when being swung, but what G.L. he dropped himself for the PT for the more flashy buccaneer style of fencing.

    I was so glad when seeing Obi-Wan and Maul met for the last time – Maul using the moves from TPM while Obi-Wan had matured to a true swordsmen like all his samurai role models, making a most efficient final statement to end that conflict.

    Which, by the way is the same Philosophy within the European Material Arts: A quick and uncompromising application of a technique and movement series: Expecting the attack, going with it while counter attacking and having the aggressor on the ground 2-3 seconds afterwards.

    Finn and the other FO Troopers surely do – if you haven’t, I recommend reading his story from the journey to the force awakens novel “Before The Awakening“. Within that, he’s shown to be one of the best in melee class of his squad. The other guy from that training session he meets again at the ruins of Maaz’ castle, wilding the standard issue FO energy baton for melee.
     
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  20. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    @Star Dude Great thread dude! I'm currently learning Escrima sticks and Filipino martial arts, whenever I practice and twirl my sticks it kind of reminds me of the Jedi (Nightwing too haha); any who, stick fighting is so intense and fast very enjoyable martial art.
     
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