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Swords and melee fighting in SW and real life

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by Star Dude, Aug 10, 2017.

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What’s your favorite melee fight scene from all the Star Wars movies so far?

  1. Darth Maul vs. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon on Naboo

    11 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. Count Dooku vs. Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda on Geonosis

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  3. Count Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan on board the Invisible Hand

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  4. Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidius on Coruscant

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Yoda vs. Darth Sidius on Coruscant

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan on Mustafar

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  7. Chirrut Imwe against Stormtroopers on Jedha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Luke vs. Darth Vader on Cloud City

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  9. Luke vs. Darth Vader on the 2nd Death Star

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  10. Kylo vs. Finn and Rey near Starkiller Base

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  1. 77th

    77th Force Sensitive

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    Hello my friend @Star Dude , and a Happy New Year since the last one.

    After many, many years of trying and error, I will never say another thing.....

    Hammers, Maces, Clubs and Axes are the best Melee Weapons by far, mainly because:
    - they deal severe injuries no matter where you hit your oponnent
    - they don't consider opposing armour at all, it's exactelly the same hit a head or a helmet head
    - they are just DUMB weapons, no expertize is needed to use them, no need to practice just cluber everything
    - users don't need to consider protection from the enemy, it's all push and club forward (no Hammer or Axe\Mace user wears a shield EVER nor Armour)
    - they allow users to control initiative in a combat, the Hammer\Axe user will never stand or guard, he will Always PUSH FORWARD against the enemy

    The use of Swords is dictated by other circumstances where they serve better than the others above:
    - Swords are mainly a cavalry weapon, because it's VERY difficult to stand and deliver clubering from a horse back, therefore the horse raiders USE swords to pass and cut thru the enemy ranks (even with gun powder weapons the cavalry Saber was Cavalry main weapon until late in Warfare)
    - Swords allow Parrying, fight sword against sword like a ceremonial thing, you can never parry with hammers\axes because they would break into everything easely while swords allow the fighting dance between the opponents (again this is just a visual thing, ok for a couple of guys showing off their sword skills but in combat there would never be space and time to fight this way and on other hand this will demonstrate the main failure in sword fighting, mastering sword techniques will take to much time to train significant number of soldiers and in combat there will never be space enough to sword parrying)
    - Swords could also be used in particular combat situations were cutting and slashing remain the objective, things like the japanese Katana or the arab Cimitar come to mind, the figth with them is a fluid circular thing cutting opponents along the way but again this is not a combat technique just a fighting style you could use against a guy or a thief because it would take time and space to execute.

    But there's no need to wonder witch one are the best because military history as proven again and again that swords are not great melee weapons, greatest blatant examples:

    - At the height of the Cavalry Age, XI-XIII Centuries, King Harold few Huskarls conquered Britain throne with the "Danish Axe" against a vast superior knight army.

    - With the coming of the "Halberd", XIII-XIV Centuries, the mounted sworded knight was vanquished from the battlefield.

    Edit:

    Even in ancient times Swords weren't the weapon of choice, Swords were mainly a prove of stature, a nobliarquic thing. The Weapon of the armies in the ancient times was the spear, again very cheap to produce and fast to train in comparison to the sword, and the devastating close melee weapons were the Axes, Maces and Hammers because they were easy to use and they were available on the daily live to the peasants.

    For Example in the "Illiad" at least 80% of the kills are made with spears and the Helenic Clubs are the must feared weapons.
     
    #141 77th, Jan 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  2. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    I vote for Obi Wan vs Darth Vader on Death Star I. In the light of Obi Wan vs Darth Maul on Tatooine you see this is two masters fighting with a stripped down one-hit one-kill method which is on another level.you can see this sh*t in shotokan karate.its the highest level.
     
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  3. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Rebel Official

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    @Star Dude, it's taken me far, FAR too long to notice this, and for that I apologize. TPM Maul fight wins for me, but the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin in ROTS is a close second.
     
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  4. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    So who could have thought of this back then when putting together that voting list?

    As per today, you might call it outdated already, but nonetheless, we got another worthy scene from that galaxy far far away when it comes to a breathtaking melee. Would some of you guys now change your historic vote?

    And it’s really interesting to see that as it seems, even Kylo and Rey got close to their limit at some point against those Praetorians.

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_01.png

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_02.png

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_03.png

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_04.png

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_05.png

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_06.png

    ReyKyloPraetorianFight_07.png

    I wonder, if we will get more of this stuff when J.J. might introduce the Knights of Ren to their full potential.
     
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  5. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    If JJ lets Kylo (and/or Rey) fight against the KOR in EPIX, then people will compare it with this fight and say it's just a rip off. So, JJ has a pretty difficult task to deal with.
     
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  6. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Say, @NinjaRen – was it all a deceit that time or were you in danger for real if not for that girl tossing her lightsaber to you?

    But I hope they utilize the KoR in a much better way than just cannon fodder for some 3 minutes.
     
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  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Neither nor. ;D

    In my mind there should be three KOR scenes:
    1) the KOR attacking a Resistance or Republic base (compare it with the opening of The Dark Knight)
    2) the KOR training on Mustafar while Kylo is watching or a Kind Arthur like table scene with the knights and Kylo
    3) a fight against the knights
     
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  8. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Agreed! This would fit nicely with one of the first concepts from George Lucas - the Knights of the Sith opposing to the Knightly Order of the Jedi Bendu. They also had shrines were they gathered, like the round table.

    Edit: Script from 1975

    DraftScript1975.png
     
    #148 Star Dude, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  9. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Sword or Spear, which is better?

    My two favorite YouTubers (in regards to historic fighting techniques), together on this topic.

     
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  10. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

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    I am loving the ligthsabers duels of the ST so far. They are intense and at the same time beautiful coreographated. Luke x Kylo in Crait is memorable.
     
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  11. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    It's like a very good Western or Samurai showdown! Intense drama and cool action.
     
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  12. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I took a long sword class my shoulders were burning.It was fun!
     
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  13. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    “You've taken your first step into a larger world.” ;)

    How is your Escrima doing?

    (duel)
     
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  14. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I train as much as I can at least 2-3 times a week with the sticks. The instructor for the long sword is ok. She gets great guest swordsman to teach her class. Those guys are talented. They give us a history lesson then we begin to train. My goal is to train with one of those swordsman because they are intense. I barely work up a sweat when she teaches the class thats why I stopped going. I will never stop escrima, its a wonderful art, knives, sticks, and empty hands:D.
     
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  15. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Well done Sir. It's great that you enjoy it so much!
     
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  16. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    I practice the Lightsaber treatsies/forms of Ataru, Makashi, and Shien/Djem So. I am also a practioner of the European Martial Arts: Spadda Longa (Long Sword), Spadda de Filio (Side Sword, Musketeer weapon), Sword and Shield, and Half-Swording.

    I also self taught myself Kendo/Kenjitsu, the treatsies of the Samurai, and Ninjitsu.
     
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  17. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    Maybe this is of interest to you then:
     
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  18. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    Fascinating. It is interesting how the Ninja as depicted in most media is based on supernatural legend called the Ninji, while the real Ninjas looked like normal people and assasinated people in regular clothing.
     
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