TFA Arthurian Themes Thread

In this thread we discuss everything ranging from character archetypes to other motifs, themes and tropes derived from Arthurian literature and used in Star Wars The Force Awakens. Is Rey a female version of King Arthur? Is Anakin's lightsabre excalibur? Is Finn portrayed as Parcival, Gawain or Lancelot? Do you think Maz Kanata's character is modelled on the Fisherking or is her portrayal more akin to the Lady of the Lake? It Luke being framed as Star Wars' Merlin? Is Kylo Ren Morded and Snoke Morgan le Fay? Is there a holy grail present in the new trilogy and what role does the Arthurian quest for eternal life play in the sequels?

What do these themes tell us about the emotional struggles of our main characters and their purpose in relation to each other and the story in general? Are there any other mythological stories, motifs, tropes and themes influencing the characters and story of Star Wars The Force Awakens outside the Arthurian corpus?

What were your favourite Arthurian moments, motifs, tropes and themes in The Force Awakens and to what extent will these help us determine how the story will develop in episodes VIII and IX?



Puzzlewood features as a location in many contemporary Arthurian drama, TV and movie adaptations

 

This is really interesting. And in other traditions there is also this strange and lightly erotic relation between Morgana and Merlin. So if I understand you correctly you read it as follows: Luke might have been seduced by means of a deception and the intercourse produced Rey, like Uthar Pendragon fathered Arthur? And do I understand you correctly that you think Kylo Ren might have been seduced as well by means of a morgana-esque woman/love interest controlled by Snoke? Or is Snoke Morgana? I do know that in the original concept art Snoke's character had been a woman at some point in pre-production, and knowing Arndt's writing, he allows himself to be influenced by Arthurian lore for a considerable extent.

I'll give my views in a short summary one of these days, but for now I have identified the use of the following Arthurian character archetypes. Themes, motifs and tropes to follow later:

Rey = Arthur
Anakin's lightsabre = Excalibur (family heirloom with a certain amount of mystical agency)
Finn = Parcifal (kept ignorant by the first order, but that ignorance reveals and preserves his true moral character. He is like Parcival to Arthur, Rey's moral compass. The martyrial themes, Finn's sacrifice, also tie into similar martyrial themes present in different renditions of Parcival)
Kylo Ren = Mordred (though in the gif above he embodies the archetype of Cei/Kay when Rey pulls the sword from the snow/stone)
Snoke = Morgana (Morgana is often associated with rejuvination and 'eternal' life: perhaps if Snoke is Plagueis, the "prevent people from dying" theme from ROTS might return)
Knights of Ren = fallen knights of the round table, seduced by Morgana/Snoke and lead by Mordred/Kylo Ren
Maz Kanata = in her scenes she embodies both the archetypes of The Fisherking who presented Parcival with a 'test of faith' and the Lady of the Lake who functions as the mystical guardian of Arthur's sword.

What do you think? Am I right? Am I overlooking something?

 

The force as the Sangreal, that's a very nice comparison. And I haven't though of Poe as a Lancelot, he does have all the aesthetic Lancelot features, but how do you think Poe as Lancelot would function storywise? I'm really interested in this Poe/Lancelot comparison.

And really I haven't even thought of Luke's search for the first Jedi Temple as a grail like quest. That's also a very good observation, perhaps a quest which extends throughout the next two movies. Or do you think the island where we find Luke at the end of the movie is the first temple and he had thus already found it. Indeed it had all the features of a typical aescetic space: isolated, barren, devoid of other people and basic comfort. It really is an environment where someone could set up an order of mystics or aescetics dedicated to uncovering and contemplating in solitude the mystery of the the force, just like the real Irish monks who lived there. They did so as part of the early medieval Irish aescetic action called peregrinatio. When a monk conducts a perigrinatio, usually just after he reaches middle age, he leaves his homeland or original communal monastary and goes on a self imposed exile and wandering journey for the love of God in an effort to get closer to bridge. Perhaps Luke, or the early order did something similar. Ach-To also reminds me of Avallon, the island which in the early Arthurian tradition is imagined as a space which is used exactly for this type of perigrinatio and even contained a small community of monks.

 

Merlin is also imprisoned in a crystal cave in some texts. I really like that idea. Luke's only weakness but also his strength is his emotional attachment to those he loves. A "Morgauseque siren" really could manipulate those emotions. It is of course still very much conjecture that Rey is Luke's daughter, but it would fit the typical Arthurian narrative structure that I have seen thus far in TFA. Perhaps Luke really can't find a way off the island and is he trapped there like Merlin in his crystal cave.

 

Yes indeed, one theme or archetype does not have to exclude the other. They're not fixed in any way. For instance the character of Maz switches easily between being the Lady of the Lake, the Fisherking and Merlin in the Takadona scenes. Perhaps the sabre is both an Excalibur (as a family heirloom with a mystical form of agency) and a Grail type object: when Rey finds it, her connection to the Force awakened. It would fit in with @JediMasterRobert 's observation that the Force itself can functions as the Sangreal of the story.

If anyone finds the original early drafst or synopsis for Lucas earliest thought on- or version of Star Wars, please post it here. If anyone finds Lucas' original synopsis for the sequels, also, be free to post it here. I know there circulated a version written on a type machine and scanned digitally which circulated the internet in the early 2000s. I once had it, but I don't have the files anymore because I thought it was a bunch of fake rubbish. But now that I have seen the movie and know a bit more about the story concepts they have been playing with, I really want to read that synopsis again. For instance it featured: Luke's daughter, Han and Leia's son, an evil knightly order (not the sith), a story focused on moral choices, Luke's hand floating in space, vader worship by the dark knightly order, cloning of Anakin etc.

I also know that Lucas was quite suprised and also very emotionally satisfied by the fact that when he saw TFA for the first time he realized that Abrams/Arndt/Kasdan had used the most fundamental ideas Lucas' had handed in to Disney when he sold Lucasfilm after all. He had not expected that because he thought that they had ditched his ideas in favour of something else.

Below is also interesting:

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perhaps he an his students went to far and was there something fundamental he ingored. In some traditions Merlin tapped into dark and corrupt magic when urged by Morgana, but only then finding out that she tricked him when it was already too late.

 

Oh yes, your right, in Indiana Jones, the old templar actually embodies the Fisherking archetype That's true. But the rest of it, with the seal and everything is not really Arthurian in my opinion. I could be wrong.

I also wonder whether we can summarize here in short fashion the range of powers that are associated with the Holy Grail in Arthurian literature. I'm okay with everything as long as it is not from Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The Davinci Code.

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Thank you. That is very informative!

 

Well the conjecture might be that Snoke's was previously interested in Ben, but now that Rey has entered the scene and he knows of her existance, there might be a reason why he asks Kylo to bring the girl to him. If Rey is a Skywalker, she has the same royal blood as Ben. The question also is, why does Snoke want a Skywalker for himself, what does he intend to do with him or her? I know there is something in the TFA novelization which reveals something about Snoke's intentions with Kylo Ren, about how he wishes to shape something perfect from someone who is neither completely dark or light.

In some traditions Morgana actually creates Mordred out of nothing. Makes me think of this particular scene:
"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."


Would this mean Snoke/Morgana is actively seeking eternal life and immortality by means of a Skywalker? I know that in Lucas' original ideas for a main villain and the emperor he was thinking about someone who had unnaturally extended his life and was therefore extremely old (like Morgana).

 

well Obi Wan and Yoda managed to become one with the force in a one particular fashion, Snoke might try the other, the more magical and manipulative way. I don't think his intent is to be young again, but unnaturally extending his life and slowly gaining ultimate knowledge about the force. Knowledge can be an aphrodisiac. In one tradition, Morgana also fell for this aphrodisiac, and tricked Merlin in order to acquire it.

There is also some serious Neoplatonism going on here by the way in this whole concept of gaining knowledge pertaining the true identity of the Self in order to becoming one with Force.