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SPECULATION The Archetypes of Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by AlienofDoom, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    So this is just an idea I've been dinking around with for a while. I'm a huge fan of patterns (as obviously is George), so I like trying to pick up on the little things that might inform TFA, and/or distract me during lecture.

    In particular lately I've been thinking about the concept of The Freudian Trio (warning: TV Tropes link, time-sink ahead, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreudianTrio) and Star Wars.

    So far we have in Id, Ego, Superego order,

    OT: Han, Luke*, Leia
    PT: Anakin*, Padmé, Obi-Wan

    Given the patterns I/Star Wars enjoy, I think that it's only reasonable that the protagonist of the ST (who I think is almost certainly Rey) would be Superego so that each protagonist fills a different role. The other two aren't very hard to fill in either, based on what we've been told so far (especially the 'Poe is the new Han. Hot-shot pilot' stuff) allowing the following row to be added.

    ST: Poe, Finn, Rey*

    Additionally, the romances in each trilogy have covered two of the possible three combinations of Id, Ego, Superego (Anakin [Id]/Padmé [Ego] and Leia [Superego]/Han [Id]) thus setting the stage to complete the cycle here in the ST with a Superego/Ego romance between Rey and Finn (which I thiiiiink is the general preference among people anyway, correct me if I'm wrong about that).

    Obviously this is all just wild speculation on my part with nary a fact to back it up, as well as an attempt to vastly oversimplify the complex craft of storytelling, but I think that it's fun to think about and try to make guesses about TFA in this manner (but I'm wierd, soooo...)

    Anyways, thought? Contributions? Disparaging comments?
     
    #1 AlienofDoom, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
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  2. Nijuni

    Nijuni Clone

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    I was already aware of the Freudian Trio in fiction, and especially in Star Wars, but I never thought about the romance in the OT and PT being different combinations. I totally agree with your archetype of the ST trio, and I support the Finn/Rey romance, so I hope you're right.

    Great post, anyway, and very interesting to see the combinations being so different in each trilogy.
     
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  3. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Nice post! If it wasn't for you idea of a Superego/Ego romance, I'd say in Id/Ego/Superego order:

    Rey/Finn/Poe

    I'm going to preface this with the fact that I'm using TV Tropes as my source of information on the Freudian Trio, so I could be terribly, terribly wrong.

    I put Rey as the Id not because she's carnal or only into pleasure or passion, but because I feel like at the beginning she'll be a character who looks out for herself first. She's a scavenger raised on a pretty harsh planet; I don't think at first she'll be the one to appeal to Finn's better reasons. Poe on the other hand is already fighting for a cause. He's used to putting duty and honor before personal feelings (I speculate at least). Sure he might be a hothead, but so was Leia at times.

    Also, I totally ship Rey/Finn too!
     
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  4. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    Yeah, with so little information it's really hard to say say how personality-wise things will end up shaking out. Based on the toy's lines I feel fairly confident that Finn is Ego, but I don't really know enough to say about Rey and Poe.

    I think you make a good argument for Rey being Id and Poe being Superego, but I could also say that Poe strikes me as the kind of guy who'll follow orders until he feels like he has a better reason not to (just based on general vibes though), and Rey has to survive but I can imagine that making her distant and logical in her thought processes.

    Really I was just throwing stuff on the page instead of taking notes, and liked the symmetry my arrangement produced, and as Star Wars does a *ton* of that rhyming stuff I thought it'd be the natural place to take things.

    And now I'm trying to figure out what the Rey/Finn ship name should be... Fey? Ren (ha!)? Hmmm... this would be a lot easier if we had last names.
     
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  5. Deeerborne

    Deeerborne Rebelscum

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    I've never really taken the time to think about this, but I completely agree!

    And yes, let the Rey/Finn shipping commence! Personally I'm in favor of "Fey."
     
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  6. Nijuni

    Nijuni Clone

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    I think our main problem is that we don't know enough about Poe. I totally agree with Finn being Ego, especially after Boyega himself describing his character as a Luke Skywalker type.

    Like AlienofDoom, I'd tend to picture Rey as Superego, but Use the Falchion is right, she could also be Id, especially with her taking-care-of-herself attitude. Everybody seems to picture Poe as a Han Solo-esque character, in this case he would totally be the Id, but as long as we haven't seen the movie, we can't know for sure.

    I think the main reason I believe in Rey being Superego is that we mostly see her (in trailers, pictures, etc.) as kind of an emotionless character (a little bit like Leia seemed to be on ANH). You know, Finn is scared running on Jakku, Poe is joyful in his X-Wing. But Rey always seems more introvert, hiding her emotions, which is the sign of a Superego character (think of Spock, the most famous one).

    But yeah, who knows? Everything is still possible.
     
  7. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    I'm of the opinion that the upcoming trailer will probably give us a *much* better idea of our characters, especially Poe as we've seen so little of him so far.
     
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  8. ig89

    ig89 Rebelscum

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    Romance better not be a bigger theme than it was in the PT. In the OT it was perfect. It was there but almost unnoticable imo.
    And Rey and Finn together? Please no. Also I think that a woman in the lead in a movie shouldn't be inherent to her having a romantic relationship, that's such a hollywood cliche. It causes you to say: 'Romance between Rey and Finn is the general preference among people'. As if everyone has their preference of who Rey should be with. A possible romance is the last thing I think about and I would prefer they spend more time on other themes.
     
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  9. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    I doubt that there will be more romance than in the PT, but romance has intrinsically been part of Star Wars's DNA almost since the beginning. As it is a throwback to those old pulpy frictions of yesteryear, the tradition of the grand romance comes with it. And sure that idea can be updated and rejiggered for modern times, but it is part of the essence of Star Wars more than blasters or lightsabers (I'd argue).

    It's for that reason that I'm positive the ST will have an epic romance of some sort. Does it have to be between Rey and Finn? No. Do I think that it probably will? Yes, but I'm *not* positive about that. They've been chemistry testing actresses with John Boyega for Episode VIII, it might be between Finn and the character whoever they pick ends up playing. Mayhaps it's between Rey and Poe. Perhaps it's Finn and Poe (though, as amazing as it would be if a freakin' Star Wars film had a central homosexual romance, I doubt that they'd go that direction... sigh).

    The reason I think that Fey (are we calling it that yet?) is popular right now is for a couple of reasons. Boyega and Ridley have had good chemistry together at cons and other such appearances, which obviously endears us to them, but - even more importantly in my opinion - there are just so few options for that grand romance right now. We know so little, only a couple of character's names (and I'm sorry to all of you who've held on, but I doubt part of the paring is going to be Snoke), barely any character details.

    Perhaps after the film comes out people will jump on the Poe/Maz Kanata train, but for now, based on what we know, Fey seems the most likely to most people, and thus has the most support it seems.
     
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  10. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    You'll have to run it by Tina. After all, she has already unabashedly talked about her lack of fear going up against a new Star Wars film, since she has a new movie coming out the same weekend. But if we start calling the Star Wars romance by her name, that might just push her over the edge... :p
     
    #10 Dark Toilet, Oct 8, 2015
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  11. Nijuni

    Nijuni Clone

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    I totally agree with AlienofDoom, especially romance being a central part of the saga. People (myself included) think of Rey and Finn as a potential romance because of the marketing showing those two characters together (with Poe always being on his own), and because of the undoubtable chemistry between John and Daisy.
    I'm totally up for a female character not having any romance, so if Rey stays single during the whole trilogy, it's OK for me, but there HAS to be a romance during the course of the trilogy. And I think it would be better if this story is told throughout the three movies, that's why I'm more in favor of Rey/Finn than I am with Finn and a new female character introduced in Episode 8 for example.

    To link this with the topic:
    The OT shows a romance between Superego and Id = opposite attracts, finding balance.
    The PT talks about a romance between Ego and Id = passion, leads to the fall of the ego and a dual between Id and Superego, so not balance...

    If the ST romance is about Superego and Ego, it would be a totally different story than the other two trilogies, that's what I find so interesting about this theory, and now I really hope the writers have thought about this (especially Rian Johnson, since I think the romance will mostly be present in Episode 8).
     
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  12. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    Expounding on this idea, this would imply that we again would have a lack of balance here in the ST.

    Would that mean that we have a tragic ending to the end of this trilogy in a similar manner to the PT, or am I reading too much into that (more so than usual I mean)?

    Also I agree that Episode VIII is where we'll probably see the majority of the romance (following the pattern Empire and AotC set), and I imagine that JJ, Johnson, Kennedy, and co. have thought about things fairly in depth. Probably not in the exact terms that I expressed here, but I'm sure that *tons* of ideas were tossed around in the initial months of planning so the themes probably at least crossed minds.
     
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  13. Nijuni

    Nijuni Clone

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    Well I'd say everything's possible, it depends more on the actual characters than what they represent. Han and Leia have a happy ending (so far) because they learn to become more than what they were (Han's more reasonable in the end, while Leia's more prone to show her emotions).

    Anakin and Padmé fail because Anakin is not able to see past his desires (Id) and he drives Padmé (Ego) down with him. But Ego is already kind of a balance between Id and Superego (I oversimplify) so it was possible for them to succeed (I'm not saying their failure is Padmé's fault, it's clearly Anakin's).

    So what could we expect from an Ego + Superego romance?
    I think it could be something like a more platonic love, the opposite of Padmé and Anakin which is a passionate love. A platonic love is a love of ideas, of intellect, which could totally fit the Superego. I'm not saying they wouldn't kiss or have any "physical" interactions, but I'm saying they would fall in love with each other's mind more than with each other's body.

    Anyway, I'm analyzing something that isn't even sure to appear on screen. We could totally be wrong, but it's fun to theorize, and I really like this idea. ^^
     
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  14. Force238

    Force238 Rebel General

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    My guess is that Rey represents Id, Finn represents Ego, and Poe represents Superego. The Superego character is usually an Establishment-type character with high morals, and Obi-Wan and Leia fit the criteria as a Jedi and a heroic Princess respectively. As an X-Wing pilot, Poe is more of an Establishment-type than a scavenger on a desert planet.

    I also found it interesting, that there is rumor that Rey was Han's daughter, rumor that Leia treated Poe with affection almost like he's her son, and officially-released images showing Finn using Luke's lightsaber. Hints of the archetype correspondence between the old and new characters perhaps?
     
    #14 Force238, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
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  15. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    I actually like your break-down a lot! (I would point out that if Rey is Han's daughter, presumably she'd be Leia's as well, but perhaps that isn't emphasised quite as much), and regardless, I do like the idea of them doing something with that correspondence between old and new in such a fashion. It seems to fit what they've been talking about with 'the passing of the torch' going on in TFA.
     
  16. Ganon136

    Ganon136 Intelligence Officer

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    My thoughts into this are that MAYBE two end up together. Whether it is them or not, I am going to blow you all away with my predictions...

    - There are romantic moments BUT none of the trio gets together
    - They will meet their love interests throughout the series
    - If I had to pick two from the trio it would be the Poe/Rey combo

    Now for my reasoning:
    Star Wars has been full of all sorts of weird love stories that kind of just simply came to be out of nowhere. From Anakin's "passionate" love tactics, to Han making the smooth moves on Leia in a creepy yet warm sort of way, if there is love, it will happen the same ways most likely. As people adapt with time, the tactics change. I can expect the male love interest will be caring and kind to whoever he ends up with, but may start off as kind of aggressive until Rey shoves them down and shows them she can bring it too.

    You may be asking, POE and REY?!!!! What the hell are you thinking Ganon?!! Hear me out...
    A lot of theories on this one have been thrown around that BB-8 will be the connecting thread between these two.

    BB-8 belongs to Poe Dameron and supposedly makes its way near the beginning of TFA to Rey. This will lead Poe to eventually find BB by some point in the movie.

    and this will lead to them potentially getting closer with the BB-8 connecting device. You know what they say... the third party can bring people together. So in theory, I think BB-8 will be revered if these two end up. I have nothing wrong with "Fey" happening, but I am also looking at the wider scope that maybe NONE of the trio will end up with each other also. This is also why they already cast that one girl to be in Episode VIII. Just keep your options open.
     
  17. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Gonna have to disagree with you there buddy. It was noticeable but it wasn't overarching.

    Wait that's a THING?!?! Why have I not heard of this!? Please explain this!

    If Fey does happen, it could be a nice way to address interracial relationships that, while are more common now, aren't always prevalent on the big screen. I'm not making we should make a big deal out of it (like blow it up in a good way), but having it there could be nice. However that could work with any pairing of the new 3 really...
     
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  18. Ganon136

    Ganon136 Intelligence Officer

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    I was wondering the same thing. I mean it's not out of the question. I could see Twi'leks hooking up with humans, BUT MAZ KANATA AND POE?!!! You guys and your fan fictions.... XD
     
  19. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Finn gets the girl Poe gets the Falcon. That has been my prediction all along.

    Fey has a Romeo and Juliet angle with him being a trooper and her being the child of Han and Leia. The Starwars crossed lovers.

    I read in an entertainment article that Poe would get the falcon. It doesn't fit MSW but I don't think they are infallible.
     
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  20. AlienofDoom

    AlienofDoom Rebel General

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    I'm tempted to say that Poe/Maz Kanata is an actual thriving ship I've come across, but I was actually just trying to come up with something I hadn't mentioned before... but come on, you know there's going to be at least one fic after the film comes out.
     
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