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SPOILER The Basic Plot of The Rise of Skywalker, Updated and Expanded: Act I (Via JediPaxis)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Himmel, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Just checking - are you saying he does have the scarf in this shot or that he doesn't?
    Because he doesn't if you check out the hi-res version...
    20191203_153510.jpg

    Still looks like there's no bandage or scarf in the "hold on" shot to me too.
    vlcsnap-2019-12-03-15h44m23s066.png
    Just to throw even more confusion into the mix, there seem to be a few shots where Poe isn't wearing his bandolier/satchel too, the one on Ajan Kloss you posted above, and some of the promo stills in the Falcon cockpit... ;)
     
    #521 Get In Gear, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'd like to see Kylo confront the bed-ridden Palpatine and for the old Sith to place a hand on Kylo's head and reveal to him his backstory - which we see in flashback form (as we did with the Luke/Ben flashback in TLJ).

    PALPATINE
    When Skywalker betrayed me and I was thrown into the abyss...

    INT. DEATH STAR. We see Palpatine falling from his perspective.

    PALPATINE
    I summoned the power of the Dark Side to shield me from death.

    INT. DEATH STAR. Palpatine uses the Force to surround himself with some kind of energy shield. He hits the reactor and it explodes.

    PALPATINE
    I emerged, alive but mortally wounded and escaped to this world.

    EXT. DEATH STAR. We see Palpatine's droid rescue him in his personal spaceship (like Yoda's escape in ROTS with Bail Organa) and go into lightspeed.

    PALPATINE
    Exogon - a world strong with the Dark Side of the Force. It sustained me and I regained my strength. I gave life and knowledge to an ancient being of this world (Snoke).

    EXT. EXOGON. We see Palpatine healing himself and resurrecting a being from an old tomb.

    PALPATINE
    I continued with the Sith experiments of my master. Ancient Sith witchcraft. With the severed hand of your uncle and my own blood, I gave life and power to Snoke. But he was a corruption. A failure. Every experiment, upon every clone of this being, failed. Only someone with the pure blood of the Dark Side could rise and contain the ultimate power of the Dark Side - and become my heir.

    Palpatine looks at Kylo.

    PALPATINE
    Yes, my young apprentice - it is you. You are the chosen one. Snoke served his purpose - he brought you to me. And together we will finish what I started with Darth Vader...


    Or something like that.
     
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  3. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Gotcha. As you know, I never noticed the backpack in the other scenes before that conversation with you and prior to that I was under the impression that in that one
    she was holding something like .... a portable oxygen cylinder (you're definitively allowed to laugh) so I didn't check again, but not that I do, yeah. Looks the same.


    That’s my main guess too. Then - for lack of better words - I'd say bad/lazy editing. I mean... we're honestly crazy people looking at all these subtle details.
    But who knows? Maybe a better look it's really worth...

    In my opinion, she arrives on the Star Destroyer with the backpack... because we see it in the mind trick scene which has to be right at the beginning of the sequence.

    Then, she clearly has the backpack and her staff as she enters the white room.
    But I do not understand if - in mother imagines - her staff is next to what appears to be Chewie's bandolier.

    Because if so... then I believe that she's looking for Vader's helmet. Not for the dagger.
    and once she finds it, she places the backpack on that kind of shelf together with her staff, to pick up the helmet, but then... force projection/connection with Kylo who’s on Kaijmi at that point.
    The still Kylo/Rey on that planet is the same “even” but seen from Kylo's pov.
    Her look would match perfectly with the one she should have on the withe room aboard the SD at that given moment if I am right.

    I also believe that she manages to retrive the helmet, of what is left of it.
    Meanwhile the gang frees Chewie, they regroup after the “force fight”, but Kylo rushes to the DS (just because she’s got the helmet) in flesh and bones and she hands over the staff and the backpack to C3PO before going confronting Kylo or something like that...

    Now, if I am right the dagger may or may not be a mc guffin. It may end up being something that just happens to be in the white room together with other sith memorabilia/artifacts and of course the red eyed C3PO plot may turn out to be something else entirely (and I bet it is, that regardless).

    Or maybe not.. maybe the leaks are 100% correct about the dagger and C3PO, but in all truth it doesn't really matter. That was just me digressing.

    However, I still cannot help but wondering if the Rey vs the tie in the desert planet is or not a force projection/vision.
    I am not sold on this, but I just cannot help thinking it may be the case.
    What I speculate is that Kylo and the KOR are on the swamp planet, while the good guys are on the desert planet.
    And therefore that these scenes are again the same "event" but form different pov, that of rey and that of Kylo...

    Together with... the tie on fire on Ahch to.
    What if she's on the island, but not the tie?

    And... I don’t know... but I still have doubts about the white room scene/sequence.
    The bandolier and Rey’s staff are the key to try to break it all down. But I am not sure if they are there... always.
    If they are not.... then... it’s far more complicated.
    And the only explanation I can come up with is that in one occasion she has a vision of said place, maybe of the fight itself, in another occasion she physically enters the place... I hope it’s not too confusing... don’t know how to better explain myself

    About Poe... well, now that I see the HD imagine.... I don’t understand if that is a concept art or a picture. I must be blind... but believe me, I don’t get it.

    About the second one, if I am not mistaken the bandage should be on the other arm, the one we do not see.
    If so the question is still there...
     
    #523 lealt, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  4. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Just saw the latest tv spot...

    I would say that the MF scene with a blue lightning, Poe piloting - with no scarf or bandage - plus Finn and... Chewie may be where movie begins.

    But the other one, that of the high speed jump, with Poe, Finn and... Klaud maybe that one is later on...
     
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  5. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Did you notice they've removed Chewie's belongings from alcove behind Vader's mask in the wide angle on the Star Destroyer now? - I wonder if the whole sequence has been tweaked for pacing.
    Screenshot_20191203-200219_YouTube.jpg
    EDIT: Ah, forget that - I've just realised the new shot is looking from the opposite side of the room, the view is rotated 180°, Rey and Kylo must switch sides during the course of their duel.

    Rey seems to have leant her staff against something in the first shot though...
    Screenshot_20191203-195657_YouTube.jpg
     
    #525 Get In Gear, Dec 3, 2019
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  6. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    As always, execution is at least half the battle. And the way one describes it. You could easily make ANY film look like a piece of garbage based on how you present it. Think about Empire Strikes Back. "Okay, so Luke gets attacked by the abominable snowman while riding this sill hairless horse thingy. Next thing you know he's on some jungle planet being trained by a member of Jim Henson's crew who could be Kermit the Frog's long lost twin." Sheesh, that film sounds awful. LOL

    How it is received also depends on the person. I love the back story about the Trade Federation and the taxation from episode 1. Others don't. Can't really argue if it works for someone. Well, I guess we could but..
     
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  7. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Further to my post above, I've stared at these two pics for about 10 minutes now - and I've come to the conclusion the geography of that room just doesn't make any sense from one still to the other... :confused:
    Screenshot_20191203-201326_YouTube.jpg
    c723a8c.jpg
     
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  8. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    It just seems like toward the end of production, Abrams might have sort of chickened out on the weirder, more mystical Force aspects revealed in the early leaks (the Force Dyad concept , the babyheaded oracle, any possible ties to Mortis, etc) and is leaning on hand waves to explain Palpatine and the relationship between Ben and Rey, as well as the ridiculous coincidence of meeting Lando then immediately running into his long lost daughter. The whole story seems a little... lazy. Hopefully the movie proves me wrong.
     
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  9. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I think it does. I was initially a bit confused.
    But if you pay attention to the stairs, it’s clear that is only the camera angle that changes. I guess.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 3, 2019 ---
    Or it doesn’t? I don’t know again...
     
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  10. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    There are two sets of stairs. Or 4 stairs altogether.

    The camera angle does change as well.
     
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  11. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    The only way it would work would be if the plinth with Vader's mask actually slides across to the opposite side of the room - look at where it is in relation to the illuminated segments on the floor, then work out the rest of the room from there.

    It's hard to explain what I mean, but if Vader's mask is stationary, then the view has been rotated roughly 180° in one of the above shots, which would work if the room had rotational symmetry (two sets of stairs, in diagonally opposite corners).
    However, that would mean the white cylinder-like objects on the right (near the beads) in the first shot would be on the left-hand side in the new shot.
    Now, there are some cylinders visible, but they are not positioned in front of the sloping "Bespin pattern" lighting as they should be.

    If you ask me, we are actually looking at the same side of the room in both shots, and the stand with Vader's mask must move across the floor at some point... which also means Chewie's stuff has gone.
     
    #531 Get In Gear, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  12. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    This is what I want to see, I posted something similar in another thread. No ridiculous mumbo jumbo that has never been mentioned before, no plot breaking gimmicks and no fookin ewoks.

    If we get something similar to this upon release I will be happy.

    Well written sir
     
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  13. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    @TheGreyandTheRed and my dearest @master_shaitan

    I believe is going to be mumbo jumbo, but if well done ("IF") then I would like it more than I would like a surviving Palpatine.
    The latter - imo - would undermine Anakin's journey and GL's vision.

    But you can use some creativity starting from what has been left vague enough in the PT.
    The Opera scene and the "cheating death" line above all.

    Personally, however, I think that we're not going to see a decrepite Palpatine who gets rejuvenated.
    I believe it may be the contrary...

    That whatever was left of him (and I believe it may be nothing more than his evil spiritual remnant hat didn't join the Force upon death just because
    it's 100% evil stuff) is going to take shape, form, flesh and blood as the movie progresses.

    I even think that if Dark Rey is not a vision, then it may actually be one of the "forms" this evil thing takes (à la "annihilation" for those who saw that movie).

    That his goal is precisely that and from our heroes (and villain) pov what has to be avoided.

    There was that rumor about the Oracle... a strange creature with a parassite baby upon an head or something under those lines.
    They now say it's gone. But I suspect that at very least the idea is still there...

    If we got baby Yoda... why not to get a parassite baby/fetus Sidius?

    I am kidding, but I guess you may get what I am talking about.

    Other than that... @Get In Gear and others...

    I don't know anymore.
    The newest TV spot confirmed JW's most recent leak about the dagger.
    And in all honesty we know there's a lot that is absolutely spot on when it comes to JP's leaks.

    At the same time, we know that not everything is going to match perfectly.

    To me, what can actually play out differently is indeed related to some "visions". They might be something close to those
    "force fights" across time and space MSW initially talked about. Remember that rumor?

    Then the nature of Sidius "presence" to quote the latest CT's interview.

    But what I believe is really locked up, it's Rey's true identity and how this is tied into the Skywaler/Palpatine saga.
    I know that the leaks take a clear stand on the subject.

    However, I think that the people in the real known are few.
    If in the 1980 GL was careful enough to hide the "I'am your father" twist in the official script of Empire, I just don't see how JJ and Comp.
    can be less careful in the internet era.

    I don't buy it.

    I guess that misdirection is strong with these ones. And I even think that is not that unlikely that the source of JP is acting in behalf
    of LF.

    Up until now, the leaks helped in building up some buzz around the movie. Which is a good thing per se.
    But if so, then the well is legit but it is also poisoned... and it is so, just to save the main revelations and the endgame.
     
    #533 lealt, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  14. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    I would be accepting of something like this as long as it makes sense and is well written. No cheap shots lol.
     
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  15. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    I suppose that comes down to what I've said numerous times already in this thread.
    I expect some of the stuff the leakers have said to be wrong. That doesn't really discredit the bulk of what they have shared so far, it's just a symptom of how movies are filmed and edited together, and how things can be misunderstood and misinterpreted.
    And I suppose it comes down to how you react to that.
    Me, I tend to just think "cool, this guy obviously did see something, or was told some legit information - some of it just got skewed in translation."
    But some people seem to be like "FFS - this guy is a fake! They misled us! I knew it. Grrr! Burn the leakers!"
    :D

    Yeah.
    Because of the way these sequences must have been filmed - even if you had watched the shoot with your own eyes, you would still be confused as to how it was going to end up playing out onscreen.

    I'm still inclined to think it is simply a case of, for example, Rey is on the Star Destroyer and Kylo is on Kijimi - so we simply cut back and forth between two different POVs... Kylo sees Rey as if she was on Kijimi, and Rey sees Kylo as if he was on the Star Destroyer.
    It may, however, pan out as MSW originally described with both of them moving through various locations throughout the course of one single encounter. Which I suppose would be a whole new ball game, because they are not just connecting, they are actually "teleporting" to different places together.
    The only thing lending a bit of weight to that idea at the moment is the shot of Rey seeing the crashed TIE on Ahch-To.

    I agree...
    But then, David Prowse did blow the lid on the father/son twist in an interview as early as 1978, and he was one of the ones who supposedly didn't even know the truth (and even later blasted Lucas for not letting him in on the secret)! If the internet had existed back then, it would have been everywhere.
    3V0wA.jpg

    I can all but guarantee they won't be.
    I think people have this vision in their heads that people wake up one morning and say: "I'm going to become a Star Wars movie leaker. Hmm... where should I start? Send off a few emails? Go and snoop around Pinewood? Search the internet for clues?"
    It simply doesn't - can't - work like that.
    The reality is, for example, your sister happens to mention one day that her husband's uncle is working as a carpenter building some of the sets for "that new Star Wars movie". Cool, I love Star Wars - has he seen anything interesting? Well, he didn't mention a bunch of stuff actually, but I didn't really understand it...
    And so it begins.
    Everyone working on these movies is related to someone, who is related to someone etc. People don't go out looking for leaks (well, maybe they do, but I bet they rarely find anything genuine), the opportunity just presents itself. The info comes from people you already know and trust - the bond is there before the leak, not the other way around, people don't go round trying to befriend random people who potentially might spill the beans about something (well, again, maybe they do, but I doubt that is Praxis or Ward).
    There are probably people all over the world who have been told something about their partner's day at work last night - and that conversation will have been a massive Star Wars spoiler that we would all love to hear - but it is something they are not particularly personally interested in and/or it would never cross their minds to log on and share the what they've just been told online.

    I can only think of two obvious cases of misdirection in a SW production. Changing the "I am your father" line on-set (which technically didn't work, because the Prowse interview kind of gave the game away) and filming ROTJ under the banner "Blue Harvest: Horror Beyond Imagination" (which again didn't work, because fans and the press were all over the Yuma set).
    Nowadays it's pretty standard to film a movie production under a code name of some description. And once again, it rarely works.

    But, yeah, I do actually agree with your point - Rey's origins are easy to obscure. Altering a line of dialogue could be all it takes.
    And I hope the leaks are wrong in this instance, because Rey as Palpatine's granddaughter sound like the naffest thing ever to me...
     
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  16. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Apologies for my weird obsession with the "white room" on Kylo's Star Destroyer - hope this illustrates what I was trying to explain.
    In a nutshell, the stand with Vader's mask on is in the foreground in the shot where Rey and Kylo clash swords, but at the back of the room in the newer shot of Rey and Kylo facing off against each other. You can tell because of where it is positioned relative to the illuminated floor panels.
    This is what is causing the problem, because our view of the room would have to rotate between the two shots for this to be possible - I'm presuming, just for the sake or argument, that the room is roughly symmetrical and there is another stairwell in the opposite corner to make this possible, although we have not yet seen this end of the room.

    So here is the first shot...
    Screenshot_20191203-201326_YouTube.jpg

    And here is a plan of the room, with the black blob marking the position of Vader's mask, "R" representing where Rey is standing, "K" where Kylo is standing, the position of the cylindrical objects marked in orange, and what we are presuming are Rey's beads on the floor represented by the red dots.
    The white dot is out POV and the blue markings our approximate field of vision.
    #Duel POV 2.jpg

    To make the other shot work, we have to rotate the room 180 degrees, because Vader's mask is now at the back of the room.
    c723a8c.jpg

    So here's what we see now...
    #Encounter POV.jpg
    Do you see the problem? The area where the cylinders should be isn't how it should be. In fact you can actually see them bottom right in the frame, as if we are looking at the same side of the room, rather than a rotated view.
    The only explanation is that the plinth with Vader's mask on has moved across the room.
    Which would also mean the shelf with Chewie's bowcaster and bandolier on is also empty now.
    Probably just a minor detail, but it's been making my brain melt for some reason... :p
     
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  17. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Bendemptionist
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    the cylinders are in the right hand corner of picture no. 2.
    you are seeing the tops of the wide squat one and the taller one without the filament coming out of the top. the angle your are using as your projector is "off" because we're actually looking at the scene from above right, not from the left (or "north", not "south").

    hope that makes sense? i don't have a picture editor on hand to show you what i mean.
    but look at the shapes of the cylinders and the black rings. they match up.
     
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  18. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    That's what I'm saying though - if the cylinders are on the right then Vader's mask is in the wrong place, look at it in relation to the floor panels.
    If Vader's mask is in the "correct" place, then the cylinders should be off to the left, in the area I've circled...
     
  19. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel Official

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    I see what you are saying about the location of the plinth.

    The easy answer is that we are seeing footage of two different takes. I'd guess they decided to re-shoot after seeing it in the nearly assembled film. JJ just did an interview where he said that it is common to do a re-shoot to capture a better camera angle, etc.
     
  20. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Both shots are in the latest trailer though - but that still doesn't rule them out of using and old take out of convenience at this stage I guess...
    Though it's also worth pointing out Driver was already committed to another movie when the reshoots were taking place...
     
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