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The Battle of Hoth

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by BespinMinersUnion1138, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    I think there's cold and then there's Hoth cold. Parts of Starkiller base were cold enough for snow to accumulate but not the fatal temperatures Hoth could fall into. I don't know if the cold had anything to do with X-Wings not being used on Hoth though, but if true I could see what works for Starkiller might not work for Hoth. Or maybe X-Wings were improved over the decades between Hoth and Starkiller.
     
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  2. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    What's so great about discussions like this one is there is always "a certain point of view " that can work with said theory. It really opens my eyes to other ideas on theses things and I find that entertaining. I think I will pop the movie in again just for the heck of it. :D
     
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  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Good point.
     
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  4. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    The X-Wings weren't used because they were needed to support the evacuation of personnel transports, not battle the walkers. The snow speeders were used to try to slow or halt the advance so that the evacuation could be successful.
     
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  5. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel General

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    Simple. They needed more toys to sell. Other than that, insert your own reason.
     
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  6. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    I agree. I also think the number of X-wings was low due to 2 per transport. Now most snow speeder crews were X-wing pilots but I thought in the movie I saw a transport waiting on the last personal to evacuate so might have been only a few with the gunners in the back. I still am firm that the Rebels didn't expect the snow speeders weapons to be so ineffective against the Walkers armor. The Empire may have upgraded them without the Rebels knowing could be on explanation.
     
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  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    One things that's been bugging me lately- do we have a good reason why the Empire didn't use Interdictors at Hoth?

    Seems like they could've pretty effectively wiped out all of the Rebels there with them.

    Well, maybe not, given how the Falcon managed to get away with a bum hyperdrive, but still.
     
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  8. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    They didn't know they were going to need any. It wasn't supposed to be a blockade, they were supposed to have the element of surprise but Ozzel was a tool. I don't know what the Empire had planned besides not coming out of lightspeed close enough to alarm the Rebels. I guess Vader's fleet just didn't have any on-hand and they left as soon as they got the probe fragment. Maybe they would have waited for some Interdictors after they got to the system un-detected, or maybe they were going to just pounce and destroy the generator/base from orbit. Or something else. Whatever they were planning it went South the moment they came out of lightspeed. The Rebels wouldn't have had time to get their transports loaded and the base evacuated so little interdicting would have been needed. Luckily Ozzel was a moron or the OT could have ended 20 minutes into the second movie. At least that's my guess. Mainly it's because they weren't canon at the time but that's my only in-story guess. When did they first get mentioned? Were they in Truce At Bakura or was Heir To The Empire the first?
     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    That's fair. I guess it's possible an Interdictor could've been called to the field if needed, but there simply weren't enough of the specialized Star Destroyers around to send with each fleet.

    Though, even if one wasn't initially present (which I guess makes sense, as orbital bombardment wouldn't leave many survivors), one might think that the Empire would scramble to get one right after Ozzel's flub.

    In a galaxy where hyperdrive technology is relatively commonplace, I can only assume that one of the most important tools of war is to disable your opponent's ability to escape.

    As far as the first appearance of the Interdictor, I see it being listed on Wookiepedia as first introduced in the X-Wing books. So, I think it definitely wasn't canon during the filming of ESB (ultimately, probably the actual answer to all of this) but it's fun to try to come up with actual canon reasons as well.
     
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  10. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    I think you must be looking at some specific model of Interdictor ship because they definitely pre-date the first X-Wing book as they appear in Heir To The Empire.

    I'm guessing it might have been a good idea to scramble one after Ozzel screwed up but I'm not sure if there was enough time to get one there. Or maybe they still didn't think they'd need one as they probably didn't realize what the Rebels would do until it happened. If they tried to flee they could just destroy/disable them and I'm guessing they didn't know about the ion canon until the "first catch of the day" slipped past them.
     
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  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    That's possible. It did seem kind of late.

    In the current canon, I believe it's the Rebels season 3 finale that they're introduced- so, definitely around by the time Hoth comes around.

    All definitely possible. Looking at the script, though, it seems at least Vader was concerned about an escape attempt:

    "Make ready to land out troops beyond
    the energy shield and deploy the
    fleet so that nothing gets off that
    system.
    You are in command now,
    Admiral Piett."

    Also, and this can hardly be considered anything remotely canon, but I've been playing a lot of Empire at War lately. I always make it a point to initiate an Interdictor's gravity well if I feel at all that my force is significantly larger than the enemy's. I guess that's just my specific strategy, but having the ability to literally prevent an enemy's retreat is something that would change the entire face of warfare, possibly even more so than a Death Star (assuming that a "planet" is a much smaller thing relative to the denizens of the GFFW).

    Perhaps we can blame Ozzel for this huge oversight, as well. That way, no more windpipes need crushing. :p
     
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  12. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    Yeah, but that's after Ozzel already alerted the Rebels and they're playing it by ear. The time to get an Interdictor would have been when they still had the element of surprise, before they entered the system. But when they jumped in Vader could have been confident in the element of surprise and not thought them necessary until later when the shield turned it into a blockade situation instead of a swift attack. By the time they raised the alarm getting one there could have taken time they didn't have. Though we don't really know how soon one could get there or exactly how long it was from the alarm being raised to the battle/evacuation. I can easily swallow that there wasn't enough time, at least until/if some reason is given in the future. Also, given the size of their force and firepower it probably didn't seem worth trying to scramble for some. I would probably use the same strategy you use in the game, if I happened to have an Interdictor with me at the time. If I didn't have them I don't think I'd be too worried, especially if I wasn't factoring in an ion cannon. The Empire had a huge advantage and even though they tripped the alarm they still caught the Rebels with their pants down. The Rebels didn't even have much there besides fighters and transports so it should have been a cake-walk even with the shield up, but the ion cannon and Imperial incompetence/arrogance saved the day.
     
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  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, I think the mad rush could definitely account for it.

    Hoth is a really interesting battle. It's seen as such a crushing Imperial victory, and in a way it was, but it was also a cluster**** for the Empire.
     
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  14. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    As a kid I always thought the Rebels made the Empire look stupid, and while they had losses repelling the AT-AT assault they got out of there pretty cheaply. But as you mentioned it wasn't quite that easy.

    Also, something I wasn't thinking about earlier, is that the discovery of the probe droid probably hurried things. And with the Rebels being somewhat alert by that point it might not even have mattered if Ozzel had screwed up or not.
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    True, though the probe droid discovery presumably should have given them more time to prepare an Interdictor.

    But yeah, stormtroopers get a lot of the "inept Imperials" criticisms, but I think it's something that runs all the way up the chain of command- with a few exceptions, like Tarkin, Vader, and Thrawn.
     
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  16. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    I think it could make them in a bigger hurry. I'm guessing they didn't know it had been destroyed or the Rebels already alerted (otherwise they wouldn't be surprised by the Rebels being alerted) but they could have been worried that it soon would be. Or maybe Vader was just impatient. But either way the second that signal came in they booked it for Hoth without delay. Vader had the intel he'd been looking for and was off like a shot so that it didn't become outdated intel and they'd come across another deserted Rebel base.
     
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  17. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yep they wanted to avenge the Yavin defeat badly.
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    That's an interesting thought.

    Could be, but Hoth was years after Yavin, and a lot of war happened in between the two. Personally, I'd say the invasion of Yavin after the Death Star would satisfy that vendetta more, though most of the Rebels had already escaped.
     
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  19. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yep they did, the invasion of Yavin was designed to capture the rebels leadership which didn't go to plan.
     
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  20. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    I don't understand why the Rebels didn't did leave the planet from the other side to avoid the imperial ships? Is there an canon explanation for this?
     
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