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The best way to fix the Special Editions

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Quincy, Jan 20, 2016.

?

Do you like my proposal?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. So-So

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    for all those reasons and more, i personally play at Harmy's house. : D
     
  2. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    His are absolutely brilliant too. Got two folders on my computer; Adywan's two (so far) Revisited Editions and Harmy's Despecialised Editions. Both guys did an incredible job on their opposite spectrum aims.

    I must confess though... and it may be blasphemy, but I do think Adywan's ESB might actually be my preferred version of the movie :eek:

    There I said it. I regret nothing! :D
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    hahaha ~ that's perfectly okay! just like it's perfectly okay if people like the specialized stuff (all the many variations of it).
    i think the argument that we should have access to all the options is a strong one.
    while i respect the creator, he did not make Star Wars in a vacuum and other people's efforts should be respected and allowed to be cherished--whether it's the guy in the goofy-looking suit in the Cantina (the actor, the costume designer & builder) in this case, or all the slavish work that was put into painting miniatures, backgrounds, etc. those things are appreciable and very special to some of us, regardless of how they may look to a "modern" eye.

    Star Wars stands the test of time to me. a cheesy explosion does not make or break the movie.
    seeing something there that you know wasn't there the first time you saw it actually kinda does in terms of experience.
    not that it makes it "bad", it just makes it a different experience.
    i will always want the movie i fell in love with, not some painted up "New Coke" version (for the record, i liked New Coke--but it wasn't old Coke).

    [oooo ~ 80s reference. so bad].
     
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  4. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    Please don't get me wrong on some of my critiques of the original effects; that's solely from the perspective of the special editions. If I'm watching the original films, then all the special effects, matte-lines, paintings, model-work, daft costumes, blue screens and original music are all part of the magic and a movie-world experience I've cherished and adored since I was a child.

    My support for Adywan's version and criticism of the official special edition keeping some of the wonky vintage effects is me simply being devil's advocate and just utterly confused as to why they'd update some things for the purpose of aligning it with modern movie-making, but bizarrely leave in other things that clearly now stick out as antiquated and conflict with the point of updating it?

    We get a lovely new X-Wing CGI squadron shot, yet some ropey and obviously vintage model shots like Porkins blowing up are left in? We got more rocks in front of R2 D2, but didn't get more shots of the b-wings; an element which were left out because it was hard to do the effects in 1983. Wasn't this the perfect opportunity - I thought that was the whole point of these?

    To me, the elements that the official special editions decided to pick & choose for fixing just don't make consistent sense, whilst for me at least, Adywan's does - but that's certainly not to discredit the original untouched versions, which are also perfect just as they are.

    I'll join you over at Harmy's next time :)
     
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  5. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    That's not common sense to me. It just seem like preference to me.
     
  6. freviousredux

    freviousredux Rebelscum

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    Doesn’t it bother you that the films that built the franchise in the first place no longer legally exist? We had no say in the matter when the SE replaced the originals.

    Even the Library of Congress doesn’t have the original prints of the trilogy, even though Star Wars and Empire are both in the National Film Registry!
     
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  7. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    I thought the Library of Congress was one of the few organizations that did have the original prints...
     
  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    they have the first Star Wars ( don't believe they have ESB or ROTJ, though i might be wrong). the problem is it's already deteriorating.
    as an act of preservation, they can (and probably already have) digitized it, but the original films are already pretty much lost to us unless Lucas has some in a cryogenic vault somewhere.

    the issue of keeping something like Harmy or Adywan is a sticky one, but digital proliferation means these are already available to people who are resourceful.
     
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  9. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    And I don't understand your point. Basically all other franchises out there let the fans take their preferential choice of what version they'd like to see. For example, nearly everyone on the planet seems to agree that Blade Runner and Alien3's theatrical editions are absolutely terrible compared to the later-released special editions, yet funnily enough I can actually order the blu-ray of both with one click right now if I want to. Star Wars is pretty much the only one I can think of that's had its original editions "erased from the archive memory", yet they're also absolutely beloved by millions of people. How does that make sense?
     
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  10. freviousredux

    freviousredux Rebelscum

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    I think the prints for Empire and Jedi are in much better shape than Star Wars.

    But still, there is no excuse for these three films to end up lost forever like this. These films were not made in an era where movies were considered disposable entertainment (ca 1900), or shot on unstable nitrate stock (1930s-40s). What George Lucas essentially did was declare these films people have watched for 20 years as rough drafts, erase it from existence and give us a different version without our say.

    Whether you like the Special Editions or not, this is beyond cruel.
     
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  11. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Rebelscum

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    The one change that bugs me the most in the Special Editions, is the ridiculous "Jedi Rocks" musical number at Jabba's palace. It stops the film completely in its tracks, and is unintelligible to boot. I'm also bugged by Ian McDiarmid's hologram not matching his appearance in "Return of the Jedi", but its tolerable. Remove the musical number though, and I'll be happy.
     
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  12. joefavs

    joefavs Clone

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    You guys know there are semi-specialized fan edits out there, right? They're a little harder to find than Harmy's stuff, but with a little digging you should be able to snag them. There's a few different versions out there, but people generally cut Jabba and Greedo shooting first in ANH and switch "Jedi Rocks" back to "Lapti Nek" and Hayden Christiansen back to Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ (no one really touches ESB). And, of course, they fix the color throughout. The color is really what bothers me most about the current blu-ray set, moreso than all but the most egregious changes.

    Anyway, in a perfect world we'd get something like the Blade Runner blu-ray for Star Wars, with all the different cuts included in the same set.
     
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  13. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I would care if they mattered to me. They don't. Why? Because I tend to watch the Special Editions instead of the original versions. If I had preferred the original versions that were released between 1977-83, then I would care.
     
  14. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Fox’s Senior Vice President of Library and Technical Services, Shawn Belston, confirmed last February that the excuse regarding the negatives being "destroyed" is kind of only half true.
    While it is correct that the restored negatives only now exist as the SE cut, he was also asked about the material trimmed from the original, and claimed that everything that was removed had been preserved also.
    So the original cut could actually be reassembled.

    Plenty of privately owned prints of the original movie still exist - George Kurtz screened his at a private event last summer.
    There have been several attempts to restore them, including the Silver Screen release - although that still would benefit from some cleaning up, it is the best version I have seen so far.
    Mike Verta has created a "Legacy Edition" from numerous prints, which he has presented to Disney, primarily as an "audition" for how a restoration could/should be done (although the print restoration itself looks pretty darn good from the clips). The last that was heard from that was that Disney were "enthusiastic" but had no control over any release of ANH, and a meeting with Fox and Verta was on the cards, before all went quiet.

    I'd say now Disney own all of Star Wars through the acquisition of Fox, it is slightly more likely to happen than it ever has been, one way or another.
    Fingers crossed...
     
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  15. Trokanmariel

    Trokanmariel Clone Trooper

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    Trying to fix the OT is like trying to fix Batman v Superman - a pointless cause
     
  16. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I don't know. I think the OT requires some fixing. I can't say the same about "Batman v. Superman".
     
  17. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    Jedi Rocks is the number one crime GL did with the special editions.what the hell was he thinking ?! But ok he’s also the man who thought Jar Jar Binks would be a funny character and whos PT created a ton of inconsistencies despite 16 years of time to think it through.
     
  18. garakvsneelix

    garakvsneelix Clone Commander

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    I don't know... there are many things wrong with the Special Editions, but I would miss Jabba's appearance in "A new hope". And: If they really used Hayden Christensen in the NT (or ST, but this is STAR TREK, for me), I would be able to make my peace with the missing Sebastian Shaw...
     
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  19. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    Its ST here get over it :)
     
  20. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    Has anyone noticed that many of the CGI effects added in the late 90's now looks more outdated and fake than many of the practical effects done in the late 70's and 80's? The CGI is terrible in the special editions, poor shadows/light, very little depth or detail and everyone moves like they are made out of jello.

    Bad CGI dates itself faster than good practical effects. Even TPM has unwatchable moments now because CGI was in its infancy at that stage and was having its boundaries pushed by a visionary who loved the bleeding edge. It's commendable Lucas advanced CGI forward by leaps and bounds by his efforts, but the end product shows itself too.

    And that end product is clear: CGI wasn't ready to handle the lighting, layering, detail and complexity of a well-rendered film. And what you get in the special editions is original scenes that are lit and sculpted beautifully alongside other inserted scenes that look like a bad cartoon made out of gelatin and lit like a Christmas party.
     
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