SPECULATION the church of the force has no place in starwars

Arent Ducks on Naboo Canon?

 

Chuch is derived from the greek ἐκκλησία [ekklesia] which translates as gathering/meeting/congregation. The term "church" is actually very neutral. I understand why they picked "church of the force" because the group San Tekka is part of technically constitutes of a group of people who congregate/gather and revere the Jedi philosophy. You are being offset by the word church, but that is because your association and understanding of the word "church" is a misinterpretation. The meaning is more general and does not apply primarily to Christianity. Ekklesia was also used in late antique judaism. There was also a church of the manicheaens. And even pagans used the terminology for a variety of reasons. This is also the reason why the Scientologist and other New Age groups apply for the term church, because it is neutral.

I'm sorry, I'm a late antiquity guy. I do this stuff for a living

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2016 ---

Han uses the word "Mumbo Jumbo" . Even Han uses the word "religion" for belief in the Force in a New Hope. Or as Han said:

 

Ah ok, I assumed you might be an atheist, whereas I am coming at it from a Christian perspective. I mildly object to them using the word church for some of the same reasons I suppose. The word does have a direct Christian connotation. I am not a fan of the ecumenical blending of all the world's religious philosophies as Star Wars has done and I personally want the filmmakers to avoid getting too deep into what the force is because it will not align with the truth. Basically I hope they keep it light hearted entertainment. Spiritual aspects, fine. Trying to make some commentary that "we all really just believe the same thing!" or "Star Wars is a religion!" or some stuff like that...I'll pass, but I hope I don't have to.

Anyway I think we are far from that happening, it is just a name.

I never caught her saying that :/ It is in EVERY movie, even Star Wars now... There must be some kind of rule of storytelling where at least one character in the story has to yell that out

 

Void of gods and religion? What movies were you watching? Star Wars has TONS of religious symbols and references.
In the very first Star Wars movie:
,,Your sad devotion to that ancient religion"
,,I find your lack of FAITH disturbing"

,,You my friend are all that is left of that religion"- Btw, Tarkin used the word ,,that", so logical reasoning dictates that there are others aswell, not just the jedi's. Otherwise he would've said ,,the" religion.

There are probably tons of religions in the SW universe. In ROTJ C3PO was refered to some kind of deity by the ewoks, remember?
The gungans also belived in gods, remeber why Jar-jar was released to go with Qui-gon?
And if you watched the clone wars there were witches there who were completly different from siths.

Han in epsiode V:
Then I'll see you in hell!

The most famous saying of Obi-wan is directly from the Bible:
The Force will be with you, always. -Obi-Wan
I will be with you, always. -Jesus

Now that I think about it, star wars is basically christianity and other religions mixed with some sci-fi.
In Ep 1 there is a virgin birth, along with with Dath Maul's appearance (which kinda refers to the christian devil)
Anakin was basically space Jesus, the messiah (,,chosen one") of the SW universe, even his mom refers to him as ,,he was meant to help you".
There is afterlife
There is temptation of the evil
There are prophecies
There is redemption
There is meditation (prayer?)
There is a Jedi Temple (yes, with the word TEMPLE, not some made up word)

But not just christianity but tons of other religions aswell:
The light and dark both refers to christianity and taoism (ying-yang).
The force powers the jedi use is basically from the Chinese QI.
The jedi look like a mix between buddhist, christian, and japanese zen monks.
Yoda's character definitely derives from easter masters, like yogis (thus the name?), or buddhist monks.

The Force is basiacally the god of star wars. It is everywhere, it sorrounds and binds every living things, and it has its own will.

Geroge Lucas himself is religious, he considers himself as ,,methodist-buddhist"

,,I was raised Methodist. Now let’s say I’m spiritual. It’s Marin County [California, a very liberal area]. We’re all Buddhists up here"- George Lucas

,,There's absolutely no conflict between Darwinism and God's design for the universe -- if you believe that it's God's design. The problem for me is that I see a very big difference between the Bible and God. And the problem they're getting into now is that they're trying to understand intelligent design through the Bible, not through God. Our job is to find all the "intelligent design," and figure out how He did everything, and I think that's consistent with science. " - George Lucas about darwinism (source: boston.com interview, with GL)

Star wars was always about faith and believing. Remember when Luke switched off his targeting computer to trust the force?

So if you somehow falied to see the many obvious religious references in star wars I guess now you do.

About the church of the force. It wasnt even mentioned in the movie, and I really doubt it would be an earth-like church. If you are nitpicking on the word ,,church" you should also nitpick about the jedi TEMPLE.
The expression church most likely has a different meaning in that context. The members dvelve into the history of the jedi and search for them and study the force, as the empire wanted to erase jedi from the history of the Rebublic. And judging from the OT people dont belive in the force anyomore, thus the expression church.
And despite the midichlorians, the force seems to be something which is rather mythical, and misterious with its own will, than a measureable energy-field or something scientifically determinable, so I guess the force was never a scientifically proven entity in the SW universe, and even the jedi need strong need belief to use and trust the force. Maybe the scientists of the Rebublic believed that the jedi gain their powers from some undiscovered method (gene mutation or something like that).

 

I'm really not bothered they've made reference to a "church of the force" outside of the movie, and this is coming from a guy who is really anti religion, even more so where there's christian overtones within media. But in a way, it makes sense. Seeing as throughout history in the SW galaxy there have been actual people with supernatural abilities that have been witnessed and used to change the outcomes of various wars, why wouldn't there be pockets of races here and there that revere the Jedi or the Sith?

As previous posters have mentioned, the meaning of a church has evolved over the ages. It's most probably the simplest universal term that the writers went with, and would surmise that they didn't spend too much time postulating about it. I just take it as a little snippet of info to flesh out the character of Lor San Tekka.

Hopefully, we've delved into this enough now, as I'd hate a heated religious debate to break out!

 

Definitely this.

When Luke was being trained by Obi-Wan aboard the Millennium Falcon, Han made his "hokey religions" comment. Luke responds, indicating Han does not seem to believe in the Force, and Han's reply is "I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."

As was pointed out earlier, Tarkin also referenced "religion" with Vader.

"Faith" is also a stated concept in A New Hope, as in Vader's famous line "I find your lack of faith disturbing" in response to Admiral Motti's comments ("Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you...").

In the Revenge of the Sith novelization, Yoda states, "An infinite mystery is the Force. The more we learn, the more we discover how much we do not know."

Not even Yoda, in his 800+ years of training Jedi, had complete knowledge of or mastery over the Force. He said as much in The Empire Strikes Back after Luke said Yoda could not die: "Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong."

Force Priestesses (http://www.starwars.com/databank/force-priestesses) exist in canon, and other groups have their respective understandings of the Force and beliefs (e.g. even the Gungans: http://www.starwars.com/databank/rish-loo).

There are other "religion" references in Wookieepedia (many of which might be "Legends" but still existing as indicators as Star Wars having been well-populated with religious content): http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=religion&go=&fulltext=Search

"Gods" and "priests" and "shamans" also have their share of references:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=god&go=&fulltext=Search

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=priest&go=&fulltext=Search

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=shaman&go=&fulltext=Search

It was Qui-Gon Jinn who learned the secrets of immortality from a Shaman of the Whills (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shaman_of_the_Whills).

The Force is decidedly a mystical, mythological, and spiritual pursuit, not a science (the quantifiable midichlorians only account for an aspect of the Force). This is why teachings of past Jedi and Sith are passed down to future Jedi and Sith by way of Holocrons (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Holocron).

Ultimately the Jedi and the Sith can be considered two major groups / dominant belief systems in a vast galaxy where there are likely to be many variations and unknown persons or formalized religious systems whose practices and beliefs reference the Force in various ways.

For example, the Lasat (now canon) called the Force "Ashla":
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:WookieeProject_Rebels/Legends_of_the_Lasat
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force

JediMasterRobert

 

I'm quite fine with there being religions associated with varying aspects of the Force. Or, if you would, see them as cults, not widespread but consisting of groups of people who choose to follow something they themselves don't entirely understand or know.

In any case, religion itself has always been a part of Star Wars, albeit in a more subtle manner during the OT. To be a Jedi, for instance, is to follow a certain set of beliefs and ethics.

 

Our moral framework is informed by religion. I'm not religious, but at least I aknowledge that our moral system/framework is based on Judaic-Christian culture. Hell, it even is informed by other world religions in the age of globelization. I can pick out things which are peculiar to Islam, Hindu or Budhism which inform my moral framework.

 

You guys DO realize that Jedi is a literal religion...right ?

 

Thank you, FallenAngel, for the clarification. I see.

That is one definition, but there is a more general usage of the word, as in separation of church and state (i.e. not just separation between Christians and government but all religions and affairs of the state):

• https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=church
  
• http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/church
  
• http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/church (the third part of their "Full Definition" helps: "a body or organization of religious believers"

Semantics can present challenges and unintended meanings. This was not such a difficult case, though, and in light of the history of the word's usage and your concerns, I think the writers could have exercised greater care in choosing this group's name.

Perhaps something more along the non-denominational lines of the Followers of the Force could have worked better.

JediMasterRobert

 

I'd say that area is debatable, with myself leaning more towards the religious for them.

However, the meat of what I was getting at was that I am fine with people who have little to no firsthand understanding of the Force (non-sensitives) treating a devotion to it as a religion, and in effect themselves becoming followers of that same mystical power which gives certain people godly powers. And to me it makes even more sense when discussion about the Force was considered taboo, punishable by the powers that be, and the power and abilities ascribed to its users relegated more to legend than actual personal knowledge of the follower.

 

Well, the force is supposed run through everything, surround and bind all, so that would lean toward it being inspired by paganism. The light v dark (good v evil) aspect would be drawn from the same source, but there are those who primarily tap into one over the other dependent on their moral standing. I think there are some mirrors with reality in SW, but I don't think they've be planted in there to appeal to any such group in particular.