The Confusing Philosophy of The Last Jedi

I appreciate your take on this issue, but I think @Moral Hazard has done a pretty good job of pointing out that you're stretching a little bit on some of these character traits. Sometimes depictions of men/women in film go overboard attempting to deny differences in men and women. Sons, Fathers, Daughters, and Mothers are different and we shouldn't deny them... but we should avoid heavy stereotypes because they're boring and offensive in some cases.

Rey and Ben are the yin/yang of this story, but I don't see that as a product of their gender, but a product of how they see the world. Rey is an optimistic an Ben is a pessimist. Ben wants to break and Rey wants to be build.

 

And I appreciate civil debate

And you're both right in saying that I was "stretching a little bit on some of these character traits"
It was intentional...

I acknowledge those charaters are not... a past and copy from a XV century tale or from a 30es movie.
Sure. I'm not that blind.
But the point to me is what/who their are at their "core".

I used "emphasis", as a rhetoric tool to ask that question.
And from this point of view - my point of view - the thing is... not matter the nuances, at the end of the day
we still are in a known, "traditional", territory.

Not in a new era...

 

Haha! Maybe it does little good hashing this stuff out by text on the internet but no worries - I get the impression you more or less feel the same as I anyway.

Or that such notions existed (in some minds) but were ignored or suppressed.

I agree that it's of the utmost importance to bring examples into childrens field of vision that challenge false or outdated assumptions.

Throughout much of history women have been constricted to limited roles in society while men from Aristotle to Darwin argue that these limited roles were to be taken as evidence of their deficient capacity!

Great point - it's so tricky.
Art reflects life and there's a tension around acting as if free and being restricted to communicating broad stories to people through familiar languages of the past and the burdens they carry.

I'm just torn between acknowledging the need to provide counter narratives that challenge familiar tropes based around outmoded thinking and looking at SW as though it's a prescriptive morality play or example of how people should treat each other!

And in some cases, man-children!
You're probably right but one could also provide an argument that men in SW are always portrayed in a paternal context (although some of the characters (Anakin) get a little mixed up).

Fair call.

I guess something just doesn't sit right with me about placing these responsibilities on fairytale writers.
Maybe I worry that it may not be possible to reconcile our ideals with interesting storytelling...
Maybe I'm wrong!

It's a fascinating idea though and you've inspired me to seek out some female storytelling voices to learn what thoughts are out there on the matter.

FWIW I'm a man who's understanding will always be limited on the issues women struggle with today.
I just try to do my bit to ensure the little females in my life are provided with positive examples that counter the weight of history and institutions that are so heavy in male perspective.

At the moment the six-year-old has me reading my last xmas present for her: Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls: 100 Tales of Extraordinary Women.
It's a beautiful book with a one page as a bio of an amazing woman in history written in fairytale form and the other as an illustration of her by one of 60 female artists.
I don't necessarily subscribe to any of the potential political ideology that may be behind the publishers but figure it does much more good than harm!