SPECULATION The Connection Between Rey and Ben.

Hm, starwars.com is certainly vetted though (or at least is the most vetted and up to date to official current canon internet source as can be) and the recent databank entries are as canonical as they can be. I'm not sure why you think they are not...
I was also just going to suggest if you can check the books you have - junior novel and the children's book you mentioned a couple of pages ago. I have the feeling that Kylo is used...Indeed we must solve this.

 

Yep, I guess it is like in real life with celebrities, some keep their name and some do not.

 

i'm not going to articulate this well, but that site is run and managed by Disney, not Lucasfilm, which sounds like a buncha hairsplitting and of course it's not wildly off the range, but Pablo Hidalgo said that the content is not vetted by him. so when people asked about Kylo Ren killing the Jedi students (for which again, this is the only single source of confirmation for that), he specifically said that he would not have worded it that way. on the subject of calling Kylo Ren "Kylo", i have no idea ~ hahaha

but yes, i will look at my sources and see if i can find any Kylo references. i could totally be wrong, i just can't think of any examples.

 

Yes, we should check about that naming thing...Do let us know! I'm curious. I don't think it is so hugely important, but I've noticed that Hidalgo, databank, etc, all call him Kylo or Kylo Ren, not Ren...

I think (or suspect) I know exactly what occasion you are referencing, but my dear friend, you are either misremembering or misunderstood what Hidalgo said...That conversation on twitter (which I suspect you are referencing) a few months ago happened to be with me and him. He had just discussed on Twitter how a newly published canonical material was incorrect (I forget the name but it had something about TFA database in it) and that if he had read it he would have "struck it". The mistake in question was that on one page it said that Kylo Ren formed the Knights of Ren and then on another page that he joined them. (The correct one should be, he joined them). So, I further asked Hidalgo if the wording on the starwars.com database that said that Kylo killed all the jedi students of Luke is also possibly suspect as that is the only source that said it directly. At first he misunderstood me, and thought I was talking about the publication with the previous error, but then when I asked to double check, he said that if it is on the official page it must be canon-correct. He then told me to hold on while he checked and told me that it is correct. I then expressed doubt as that was the only source (so far) that directly said that Luke's padawans were killed by Kylo. Pablo replied that that conforms to what is said in the book he penned (Visual Dictionary).
I think you are perhaps misremembering this twitter exchange to mean that the databank on starwars.com is not vetted, but it is in fact vetted by the people in Lucasfilm.

It of course, may yet be revealed that what we currently know is not exactly true or not exactly as black and white as it was presented so far, but when it comes to what is currently known, starwars.com is the most canon-compliant source on the Internet...
The latest databank picture entries are definetely officially sanctioned or as close to officially sanctioned as can be.

In any case. It's not that important how we call Kylo Ren. As someone noted above, far more important is that he comes back as Ben Solo haha.

 

i remember that tweet exchange, but i think this was something he said to someone earlier than that (which would be moot since obviously the exchange you had with him was more recent). there was the discussion about the Visual Guide, that was the other printed source, yes, but this was something from last spring.

of course, there's absolutely the possibility that i am misremembering; i only know it struck me at the time because it was typically evasive in terms of answering the question, and it left sufficient doubt. again, his conversation with you was more recent, but i never recall seeing the part where he confirms that it is canon-correct ~ and i still find that odd since the Visual Dictionary actually doesn't use that language at all either. know what i mean?

and either way, what Pablo calls him is irrelevant since he hates him ~ hahahaha : D

and ultimately, i agree it actually isn't the least bit important ~ i just think the Ren Ben thing does still make that transition easier from a psychological perspective; it's the transposition (not quite the right word) of a single letter (as opposed to something clunkier like Darth Vader to Anakin or Bob to Paula).

honestly the whole thing is just a bit of stupidity that flit through my head. but it will still be amusing to look at the sources.

 

Yeah, my conversation with Pablo basically confirmed that at least in his eyes what is on starwars.com is/should be as canon compliant as it currently can be. What Pablo thinks about Kylo as a character on the other hand is irrelevant as it's just his opinion, definetely. And I'm of your mind, I also think that apart from this very explicit wording which if I'm not wrong is gone now (?) everything else is very ambiguously worded as to what really happened at Luke's aspiring young jedi camp and I believe we are yet to hear that story. I was not trying to be contrarian. Just that I think the database on the website is a viable source...To me I Hux and Finn calling him Ren in the film is the same as Obi-Wan calling Vader, Darth, which has never sat well with me, and have found odd, haha.

(I do like how you are thinking about the similarities between Ren and Ben.)
Ultimately, I prefer calling him Kylo just because I like the name Kylo haha, but who cares what they/we call him - it's an alter ego after all that needs to be destroyed. His real name is Ben!

 

From StarWars.com:


Revan and Bastila in KOTOR:


Coincidence? Or Rey and Kylo are inspired by Bastila and Revan ?

 

No. Maybe concept artist was slightly inspired by Bastilla and Rey, but in terms of writing no, they're not. Kasdan, Arndt and Abrams have never played this game, I'm not sure if they're even aware of its existence, therefore I don't see them taking any elements from these games. A concept of "mysterious connection" is quite popular in storytelling and taking into account how many stories were produced in the Legends I would be surprised if elements of Sequel Trilogy had not appeared earlier.

 

Kybo Ren...Snoke Lorean...
Names from EU. I sense JJ and Kasdan were fed some ideas from the story group.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 2, 2017 ---

Jeez, I don't know much about this stuff but just read up on these two - so many themes and plot lines that strike accord with this trilogy and certain theories. Very interesting...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 2, 2017 ---

Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan… and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone. -Darth Malak

Say whaaaaaaaaat?!

 

Hidalgo's already been asked about any connections to Revan or Bastila in the ST and he said pretty firmly that there aren't any.

 

Off course, he will not say "yes we are inspired by KOTOR and the story of Revan and Bastila, the Story Group has influenced the makers of TFA, Rey and Kylo will end up together in Episode 9".



"Revan studied under a number of different Jedi Masters as a Padawan of the Jedi Order"

"He was turned to the dark side of the Force by the Sith Emperor in the Unknown Regions" (Snoke is also in the Unknown Regions...)

"the remnants of the original Sith Empire established a new Sith Empire in the galaxy's Unknown Regions." (Just like the First Order in the Unknown Regions...)

"The Star Forge drew energy and matter from a nearby star" (just like Starkiller Base...)

" Revan was captured by the Jedi Knight Bastila Shan, who saved Revan and formed a Force bond with her captive."

"Shan eventually fell in love with Revan, who, despite his past, was able to remain true to the Jedi Code."

"Revan brought a fallen Shan back to the light side of the Force with his love"

"Shan and Revan married, and started a new life together."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bastila
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Forge

Stranges coincidences between KOTOR and TFA/the Reylo theory...

 

Yeah, I don't buy a lot of what JJ and Kasdan have said, nor Pablo.
JJ said that he and Kasdan came up with the story, names etc of characters - but are we to believe that the storygroup, that have a great knowledge of Star Wars EU and canon, wouldn't have had a hand in such names as Kylo Ren when the character "Kybo Ren" already existed?! Puhhhlease! Clearly, whether intentional in places or not, these EU stories are engrained in people's subconscious and many elements have been suggested to JJ and Kasdan who wove them into their story. That stuff above has just too many coincidences to be dismissed.

 

But these coincidences are much more common than you think. Have any of you heard of Newt? It's the only Pixar film that got officially cancelled. It was a about a male lizard from an endangered species that thought it was the only member of its species. However, there was also a female and both of them are forced to mate and prevent their species' extinction. Does it ring a bell? It should, because Rio, an animated film by Blue Sky had basically the same premise and this coincidence was one of the main causes for its cancellation.

Next one is Lion and Finding Dory. Both films tell a story of a child that got separated from their parents because they got lost. They stop thinking about them up until a meeting which brings memories backs and sets them off for a quest to a far away place on the opposite side of the ocean where they hope to find them. Funnily enough, both films end with a song by Sia.

The last case that I'll bring right now is Logan and books, not video games from The Witcher saga.

Spoiler: Mild spoilers for "Logan" and "The Witcher" books

Both tell a story of a man (Logan and Geralt respectively) who saw a lot in his lifetime and his experience has left mental and physical scars. During their journey, they meet a girl (Laura and Ciri) who is very much like them in terms of character and is in a need of help. At first they try to discourage them from sticking to them bit at the end they form a father-daughter relationship and are ready to sacrifice anything for them.

Why it would really cool if James Mangold knew of the books by Andrzej Sapkowski, but I simply don't see that to be the case, similarly to Kasdan, Abrams and Rian Johnson knowing about KotOR. Besides, if Pablo wants to hide something from us, he doesn't respond to a question or responds in a muddy way.

 

Different films having similar plots is very different to different Star Wars films (that are made by the same people who know all there is to know about Star Wars) incorporating close-to-identical plots/character names from other SW sources. Like I say, even if we are to believe that the story group didn't directly (purposefully) reboot old story lines from EU, they'd surely be aware subconsciously?

JJ: Anyone got a good name for Ben Solo when he turns bad?
Kasdan: How about a mix of Skywalker and Solo? Like Skylo...
Pablo: How about Kylo?
JJ: Great!
Pablo: We could call him Kylo Ren and those dark knights you were struggling to name could be the Knights of Ren...
JJ: Brilliant Pablo, how'd you come up with this stuff?!
Pablo: Just got a great imagination I guess.

*I week ago on Pablo's Tv:



^ That's Kybo Ren folks!

My point is that if JJ etc wanted to create a different dynamic between Rey and Ben (because it was all looking a bit samey) then Pablo or whoever could've stepped in and said "how about a love story between a dark and lightsider...they could be soul mates and have a force bond...redeem each other....oh and Kylo Ren could wear this sort of mask and Rey could have a double ended lightsaber!".

 

Just saying. PH has said he never lies, and he has ways of dancing around a question when he's trying to avoid spoiling the future without outright lying. This, here, is an example where he's clearly not doing that - there's no obfuscation or dodging the question or answering a question with a question, etc. This reads like when he said: "no, Jyn and Rey are not related" which is something he was asked about 5-6 months before RO came out and he answered straightforwardly.

 

This protocol droid finds all this compelling and persuasive, great post.

I think Pablo may be technically correct when he states that JJ/Kasdan weren't drawing directly from Revan/Shan when creating the characters of Kylo/Rey for TFA (although it would appear that the design team was influenced by Revan's mask) -- HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Rian Johnson won't be drawing from it moving forward. To clarify, by "drawing from", I don't mean to suggest a straight one-to-one lift, following the same trajectory etc, but there may be strong elements that are borrowed from the Revan/Shan story and mixed with other ideas/sources.

Edit: It's clear that the story group repurposes ideas from previous SW collateral (e.g. Thrawn in Rebels, the Guardians of the Whills in Rogue One), and that they are involved in concepting and planning for the SW saga as a whole -- so to reiterate, even if JJ/Kasdan are ignorant of KOTOR and SW legends lore in general, and even if Rian Johnson refrains from doing any homework and is also ignorant of this stuff, that doesn't mean that these aren't ideas on the table, offered up by the story group, for consideration when sketching out the story and drafting the screenplay.

 

The connection between Rey and Kylo in John William's music:

"Parallel music of when Rey finds the chest which contains the lightsaber, and when Kylo Ren enters her mind."

Kylo when he see the lightsaber of his grandfather: "That lightsaber... It belongs to me"

Interesting theory in the commentaries:

"Have you heard the theory that Ben Solo was the former owner of the lightsaber (when he was training as a Jedi with Luke) ? I believe that Rey feels a familiar attraction because of an object that is linked with the force (Kyber crystal) and was in the possession of the person she has a force bond with."

that would explain the "That lightsaber... It belongs to me".

 

Is that JJ Abrams saying that last bit in the commentary?

 

No it's from the Youtube commentaries beneath the video, but that's an interesting theory.