The Destruction of the New Republic

Actually if this is the case, I think it would give them a great opportunity to showcase a Galactic Civil War (which seems like a plausible scenario without a strong central government to curb any individual system's appetite for expansion. There's a power vacuum, and if the First Order can't move to fill it immediately, there is every reason to believe that someone else would. Might make for an interesting dynamic.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 27, 2016 ---

I don't know. I mean my assertion is based on a hypothetical impossibility, that they could both be there first hand to witness the terror but simultaneously survive it to have remorse and shaken faith.

And while I agree with your quote, I think the reason why is because, "the death of the faceless is no death at all". I think it's part of the reason why seeing the Storm Troopers go down, doesn't seem as innocuous in this Episode as it did in past Star Wars Episodes, not after seeing Finn and identifying with him. We saw Rebel pilots dying in the **** pit, they had faces, their death had in impact. The faceless Storm Troopers blown out of the sky? Merely good shooting by the rebels. We see Alderaan explode, and we see no faces. We see the Hosnian system explode and get the full spectrum of instant terror. It's un-nerving (at least to me)

 

I think it could be an opportunity for some ambitious systems but with the threat of the FO I doubt any of them are stupid enough to start backstabbing each other. After the events of TFA it will either be submitting to the onslaught of the FO, which now has the largest and most advanced fleet in the galaxy, or trying to band together to resist.

I think some extra material (maybe bloodlines?) is expanding on Republic politics, particularly the "Populists" and the "Centrists", which may play a role in VIII and IX. I suspect that, if the rumours are true, Laura Dern's character is one of the Centrists who will insist on more direct control in order to face the FO, essentially well intentioned extremists, in opposition to Leia's (and Poe's) faction of the Populists.

I get what you mean but these are troopers conditioned to gun down unarmed civilians in their simulations and do it in real life. I think any sacrifice would be deemed necessary in pursuit of the FO goals.

 

Questions. So many questions!

Regarding the remains of the New Republic military, nothing is certain. All we have to go on, is the propaganda of a First Order General, and the visible destruction of ships in orbit around Hosnian Prime. Interestingly, given the NR's support of the Resistance, there should be some form of backup sent to help with the attack on Starkiller base. But none comes. This could be attributed to the sudden chaos of the NR losing their central command, and thus their remaining forces are in a state of disarray. But I feel this is telling of how little strength the NR has left - not that they are defeated entirely, but are severely weakened.

And what of the First Order? They have access to state of the art technology, and appear to have sufficient forces to make targeted attacks, but lack the numbers (ships/personnel) to fight toe-to-toe in all out war. Hence Starkiller Base. A base which must have taken incredible time and materiel to make - surely more than a fledgling 'Imperial remnant' like the FO could muster? Yet surprisingly, when told of the imminent destruction of this monolithic machine, Snoke seems barely concerned. Indeed, he showed much more emotion at the thought of the Resistance finding Luke, than of losing this prized weapon. Could that indicate the FO has more resources at their disposal than we realise?

So many questions. I think the ambiguity of this movie is what makes it so great. If you can challenge your audience to guess, wonder and dream for the next 2 years, I'd say you've made a good movie! With any luck though, some of these holes will be filled in along the way.

 

Quick question: how did Han know how to break the star killer shield? He says hatbtheybhave to pass the fractional refresh rate and whatnot. I wiener of Kylo told him.

 

Hmmmmm... good question. When Leia inquires how he'll get past it, he tells her she wouldn't like it if he told her... he knew then that he had to fly in at light speed. My guess is that his days as a smuggler probably afforded him the chance to learn a lot of strategic weaknesses of Empire Technology.

That all said, it does kinda have a Deus Ex Machina feel to it. I'd like to think it's something more meaningful than that.

 

And, I'm not scientist or anything, but if you are flying at the speed of light, then wouldn't you have to have pretty quick reflexes to pass through the shields and then pull up to not crash into the planet?

 

So far what I have read about "Bloodlines" it might seem something like that. I have heard some fans were a little bit afraid there was too much politics into this book - maybe from the experience from the PT - but I am interested to read more about the state of the New Republic. Politics don't mean boring - just see "Game of Thrones" and "House of Cards" lol.

Yep. Questions, questions a lot.

 

You'd literally have to react at the speed of light in reality... but this is SW universe where we can see the destruction of Hosnian Prime from Takadona in defiance of Physics as well. We just have to suspend our disbelief a little bit.

 

Am I allowed to say,

 

I don´t think so. It would be interesting to see for the first time the installment of a sort of galatic anarchy. It has to be remember that in aftermath Mon Mothma edited, or planning to edite, the republic unmilitary act which gives military autonomy to the systems. So, diferently to OT times, now seems that we have dots of power in galaxy to the both sides. In PT or OT however we always had a unique central, politic and military, power.

 

A lot of the extra material (such as the Visual Dictionary) suggest that the FO has quite a large military with fleets hidden deep in its territory in the unknown regions. These fleets being of a comparable size to the NR fleet that has just been decimated which despite being smaller than Imperial Fleet was still the largest in the galaxy at the time. I can only assume that Snoke wasn't that bothered about SKB because he thought it was a good trade off: SKB in exchange for the NR Senate and Fleet.

There were many things wrong with the PT but the root of all them was poor scriptwriting and direction. The politics of the NR is an interesting subject that should be covered in the ST and it could add some nuance to the story. I'm not saying we need to go overboard with talks on trade treaties but certainly the power play within the NR and how it responds to the FO would be a good element to add to the story. I'm just glad that the extra material is expanding on these aspects which gives me hope they will touch upon some of it in the films. I would trade any "crime lord/underworld" scenes for some NR espionage/game of thrones.

 

Interesting, thanks! I think I'll have to buy that dictionary.

 

Agree. I just read this blog post and even when it makes a case for knowing more about Padme, it sort of talks about her legacy and the politics into Star Wars:

http://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2016/04/the-case-for-more-padme-amidala/

 

Most of military-strong countries in the reality have their own counterattack manuals and weapons in case their central governments are totally destroyed-such as SSBN. And I think the republic to have ones is much more likely than what happened in the movie-especially if it is a country that was born from a galactic scale war.

 

Really? I would imagine for most of them, it's being the second Galactic Empire, i.e. take over the galaxy. And destroying the capital of the Republic would be a devastating blow. Most of their government is dead, most of their fleet is gone, and what's left is in chaos.
And what I just said above is why I don't mind as much as others do. I don't think the New Republic is completely gone, just crippled, though badly. Likely, what's left of the NR will join with the Resistance. The rumors I've heard about scenes being filmed involving Laura Dern's character and Poe supports this idea. That could be what part of Episode VIII is, the heroes and the Republic regrouping and butting heads.

Also, if every single ship in the Republic fleet was at Hosnian Prime, that was very stupid of the NR. Just saying.

Wouldn't be surprised if he just knew of the general type of planetary shield being used. And the way he did it was kinda insane and dangerous.

 

The destruction of the New Republic in TFA was one of those things I absolutely despised. Not just because I don't like the concept. But rather, it was a cheap gimmick to try to replicate Alderaan, without actually understanding why. One of my biggest gripes with TFA is the lack of world building. I'll admit; while I do not like the PT' story, I find its world a lot more interesting. The political themes I find are fascinating.

And I get why people do not like politics in SWs; it was poorly executed. But even if we ignore the PT, it wasn't like there was no world building in the OT. My favorite scene in ANH is that round table scene.

it gives you everything you need to know: imperial senate, multiple worlds, the idea of the rebellion, and the empire's influence. And especially after RO and ROTS that scene becomes so much stronger. Now, being a fan of the NC and having read Bloodline; it was very clear that the New Republic had become stagnant, falling back into similiar pitfalls of the prior era. The FO have become essentially North Korea, an isolated-secretive power. And that is cool.

The issue was that none of that was eluded in the movie. Aside from Finn's comments, really we are left completely in the dark. And the funny part was that the movie actually had a scene that clarified it. A scene with Leia and her confidant where she asked her friend to appeal to the Senate, further explaining what was mentioned in the opening crawl(and by extension hinting to Bloodline) and thus she and every other NR member were killed.

That in of itself would have been sufficient for probably a lot of people. But nope; Abrams cut that sequence out. TFA at the very least needed to address this part, even if briefly. If the details were left for the NC, cool beans. My only hope is that TLJ will actually delve into the stakes of this conflict and the political ramifications. Because, if we take TFA's conflict at face value it is simply a recreation of the OT conflict. Which isn't all that impressive at all.

But I'll have faith in Rian Johnson because he's a very talented screenwriter and if there is anyone who can write politics and make it engaging it is him.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2017 ---

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There were many things wrong with the PT but the root of all them was poor scriptwriting and direction. The politics of the NR is an interesting subject that should be covered in the ST and it could add some nuance to the story. I'm not saying we need to go overboard with talks on trade treaties but certainly the power play within the NR and how it responds to the FO would be a good element to add to the story. I'm just glad that the extra material is expanding on these aspects which gives me hope they will touch upon some of it in the films. I would trade any "crime lord/underworld" scenes for some NR espionage/game of thrones.[/QUOTE]

My sentiments in a nutshell. And as an addemum; I'll put it to you like this. The conflict of the OT was a very simple story: Rebels vs Empire. There really wasn't that much need for context. Though, I appreciate the PT, much as they sucked, to try to give this context. It has been 30 years since that time. And really, it very much seemed like TFA wanted to hit the reset button and pretend it was 1977. But it isn't.

Even if we exclude the PT(which I find silly), I personally believe adding politics would actually be a brave decision. While it may not necessary give a more gray view of the situation, at the very least these movies would do something that the OT didn't do: capture the scope of impact that the war had. It is why I actually respected Legends continunity because it did display this. For example, I love Princess Leia in the OT. But really, I loved her a lot more in Legends as she was seen more in her element. And hence why I loved Bloodline.

And that is my final point. Politics in a story won't get you far unless you have a character that the audience cares/ finds interesting. This was something the PT bungled so terribly. And why something like Game of Thrones(much as I do not like the series) shines. Because, the characters to many people are interesting.

And really, I hope that TLJ can showcase this through Princess Leia, but I highly doubt anyone who hate that. She was raised by Bail Organa and politics has been a part of her.

 

I was curious to see if other saw the Iraq parallels in TFA that I do. To me, you got it mostly right:

"but here it's like Palpatine was Saddam Hussein and the galaxy was Iraq. Once the old leader was eliminated, a new government was put in place to try to govern democratically (the New Republic) and the threat to that now is ISIS (The First Order)."
BINGO - on point here!

"The Empire had the feel of a terrorist state, whereas the First Order has the feel of a terrorist movement."
Palpatine/Sidious and Hussein were brutal dictators, not terrorist leaders. The Empire was like a cross between Saddam's Regime and the Nazis. ISIS IS a terrorist state. Which is the feel I get from the FO.

Just my 1 1/2 cents anyway.