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The Emperor's Role in the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Logray Ewok Medicine Man, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Logray Ewok Medicine Man

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    A lot of press and interviews about Episode IX have been rolling out quickly in recent days, but two quotes really jumped out at me when read in context of one another.

    According to the Rolling Stone interview, J.J. Abrams first laughed when he read Rian Johnson’s script for Episode VIII and acknowledges Johnson’s choices were “very different from the choices I would have made.”

    Couple that statement with Colin Treverrow’s statements in Empire that “Bringing back the Emperor was an idea JJ brought to the table when he came on board…it’s honestly something I never considered.”

    If these statements are taken as accurate, they would seem to disprove statements from Kathleen Kennedy that bringing back the Emperor was “part of the plan all along.” It appears that the decision to incorporate the Emperor into the Sequel Trilogy story was made after principal photography of Episode VIII.

    I don’t know if we’ll ever know the full story (I’d love to see the rumored “making of” book by J.W. Rinzler), but implied here is that at least “The Force Awakens” and possibly “The Last Jedi” were made without envisioning the Emperor playing a meaningful role in the Sequel Trilogy.

    I believe that J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan intentionally left the ending of “The Force Awakens” open-ended so that future filmmakers could take the story in the direction they saw fit, but I don’t believe they likely envisioned that Emperor Palpatine was necessary to complete Rey’s story when writing and producing it. If they did, Lucasfilm would have immediately nailed down a contract with Ian McDiarmid to ensure his availability and participation. With what one could imagine would be a hefty contract with McDiarmid, Lucasfilm would have invariably informed Colin Treverrow of the potential to utilize the character. Treverrow didn’t just say he chose not to use him, he specifically said “its something I never considered.”

    Now,
    If we are to believe that Rey is a direct descendant of Palpatine, it appears unlikely that this was the plan during the development and production of “The Force Awakens.” So while Rey may turn out to be a Palpatine, it appears unlikely that she was envisioned as one during the production of “The Force Awakens.”

    I think each set of filmmakers did their best to tell a compelling story within the parameter handed to them. I also think it was a missed opportunity to not more fully structure a three-film story arc at the beginning of the Sequel Trilogy development process. In any case, I’m really looking forward to Episode IX and can’t wait to see Abrams’ attempt to resolve this enormous saga. May the Force be with us!
     
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  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    Colin Treverrow didn't have a script after Carrie Fisher died because he threw out the script and story he had been working on at the time and tried to start over, so him saying that he never considered bringing Palpatine became means nothing.
     
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  3. Grummgar

    Grummgar Clone

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    I can't remember where I read it but I think Colin Treverrow had planned on using Luke extensively in IX and that is a major reason in him leaving.
     
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    ^ I've never heard that before.

    As far as I know, Colin was let go because he couldn't pull a story and script together after Carrie's death, even though Lucasfilm hired screenwriter Jack Thorne to help him.
     
    #4 DigificWriter, Dec 2, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  5. Mcbee

    Mcbee Rebelscum

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    Slightly off-topic- i can't say enough times how happy I am that colin trevorrow is not making star wars. His Jurassic park films couldnt be less imaginative and i wasnt impressed with the technical side of his directing.

    Reagarding palpatine in the sequel trilogy- i think there was always *some* part planned for palpatine in this trilogy. Signs were there early on. Early "leaks" indicated rey's parentage was a lot of people, but a common theory was palpatine. More convincing though is various plots and more in many of the novels and comics etc after the disney purchase. Aftermath and so forth really plant some seeds that hint to palpatine having an influence in future events.

    Now, while i suspect palpatine was going to be a factor in the sequel trilogy- i do think the extent of it shifted, in part due to johnson's choices with TLJ, maybe in part due to some fan reaction, and maybe just because a good idea came to them. I'd bet he was a mcguffin before. Now though? We'll find out soon!
     
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  6. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebelscum

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    i don't believe he has a role in the ST only in Ep9 because the story literally went nowhere with no dramatic climax given the absence of a vilian. I was told by many users Kylo was a good enough vilian despite being conflicted and easily beaten. if you go back to posts after TLJ you will see numerous users defending the decision to kill Snoke because it helped propel Kylo as the main vilian for Ep9. i never thought this would work and clearly the writers agreed. it would have made more sense to bring Snoke back, IMO. have him be Darth Plagueis and connect the story this way instead of retconning the original trilogy.
     
  7. Logray Ewok Medicine Man

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    According to a recent interview with Chris Terrio in Awards Daily, the idea of the Emperor returning appears to have been planted by Kathleen Kennedy and/or Michelle Rejwan. It sounds like Terrio and Abrams had a lot of flexibility and freedom to do what they wanted, but the idea of bringing back the Emperor was raised by Lucasfilm even before Terrio came onboard. He claims Kennedy thought bringing back the Emperor "would be a very strong end for the ninth movie."

    Based on the information that has been coming out, it seems like J.J. Abrams originally envisioned Snoke to be the primary villain of the ST when he wrote and directed "The Force Awakens". Rian Johnson chose to kill off the character in Episode VIII, but didn't hint at who other than Kylo Ren would succeed him for the final film of the Trilogy. I suppose Kathleen Kennedy started to embrace the idea of bringing back the Emperor once she signed off on Johnson's decision to kill off Snoke.

    I think that Kathleen Kennedy was overly optimistic about how "The Last Jedi" would be received by fans, and perhaps her exuberance for Johnson's story gave her too much confidence about the idea of killing off Snoke. We know she thought very highly of the film, and prior to its released announced not just a one-film deal, but a three-film trilogy to be helmed by Rian Johnson. But that still left Lucasfilm with the challenge of creating a satisfying end to both the trilogy and saga.

    With Treverrow unable to deliver a compelling script for IX, the task fell to Abrams and Terrio, with apparently substantial guidance from Kennedy and Rejwan.

    I'm largely happy with the Sequel Trilogy, but I still think one of the biggest missed opportunities was a failure of Lucasfilm to develop a compelling three-film villain arc.
     
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  8. Unseen

    Unseen Rebel Official

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    The emperor was a hail mary. It could have worked had it been executed better and had they not thought we were all stupid.

    Question no one has been able to answer-

    Okay, Palps had a son. Then why did he need Vader or Luke? Why waste his time with them?

    "The emperor had back up plans"

    Okay. He sure spent a lot of time on the Skywalkers though. I am curious how Sheev JR was able to resist his father when Anakin wasn't. Or how he was able to escape. The emperor has all these back up plans, secret fleets, secret apprentices, etc. But...his son gets away?

    And if his son "got away" or whatever...okay. Why did the Jedi hunter kill him? Why was the Jedi hunter only interested in Rey? Why not take Sheev JR to Exegol on some "sorry Palps, the girl got away but here is your son back" ?

    And why not show him use the force? In the flash back, show Sheev JR using the force so its a)a better scene and b)makes it clear the force powers run in the family

    They could have even included a "Unfortunately, your father was foolish and weak. But you? I sense great anger in you" or something.

    SOMETHING.

    But neither JJ nor Terrio clearly cared about much.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2020 ---
    Its a missed opportunity to not have an arc for the characters/story for sure.

    But, whats worse, is they made little attempt to have one movie match up with the previous. Or care enough to even include throw away lines that would have helped make some things make more sense or match up.

    They clearly had no plan. No plan for a big villain. No plan for how Rey and Kylo would interact. No plan for Finn. Nothing.

    But worse than that, they didn't even bother to make it look like they had one retroactively. And, in the case of TROS, they didn't even bother to think any of us would use our brains.

    I mean...the Emperor has spent decades building a super fleet for his return. And he...sends out a warning to the galaxy? huh?

    Palps wanted his granddaughter (lol), but not his own son?

    Luke faces off against an entire FO army, and not one mention of it in TROS? Not even in the crawl?

    Luke didn't inspire the galaxy...Leia didn't...but Lando did in like 45 minutes?


    Even the Rey Palpatine reveal. It completely contradicts what Rey herself saw in the previous film, as well as what Kylo saw.

    Theres no "certain point of view" type explanation to make it seem like she was always a Palpatine.

    Kylo said they were drunkards in a grave. They weren't. They were good parents who died on a space ship (right?). And Kylo never lied to her.

    So how did he and Rey get it so wrong? Its like they didn't even take a day to say "Okay, lets work on this scene so it matches up with TLJ". Nope. Just "they wanted to be nobodies...join me". No effort.


    Its like they just wanted to get it over with.
     
    #8 Unseen, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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