1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPOILER The Ending: Beautiful, but problematic

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by NinjaRen, Jan 5, 2020.

Tags:
?

Did you like the ending on Tatooine

  1. Yes

    61 vote(s)
    68.5%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    18.0%
  3. I would have preferred... (please post down below)

    12 vote(s)
    13.5%
  1. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,353
    Likes Received:
    97,964
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    52,610
    Ratings:
    +105,630 / 160 / -32
    Well, I can tell you that I spent 3 years in film school and finished my bachelor thesis quite recently. So, I also can rely on what I have learned. But in the end there is no real right or false. This is were you are correct.

    But you guys pretty much missed my point. Wouldn't it be the ending of a 40 years old saga, then I wouldn't mind an open end like TROS.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    781
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,331
    Ratings:
    +1,938 / 102 / -30
    TRoS' ending isn't "open-ended".

    Every major and overarching plot and thematic element that defines the Saga films gets wrapped up by the time TRoS ends.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,353
    Likes Received:
    97,964
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    52,610
    Ratings:
    +105,630 / 160 / -32
    We were talking about Rey. Her journey is just beginning. Will she train a new generation of Jedi? Will she stay on Tatooine? Will she try to bring Ben back? The ending is pretty open if you ask me.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Posts:
    442
    Likes Received:
    9,478
    Trophy Points:
    87,967
    Credits:
    4,446
    Ratings:
    +10,177 / 1 / -0
    I think it’s both open-ended and not. :D It does indeed tie together many, many elements of the saga and brings it full circle, but it also ends with Rey having settled on a new, fuller identity looking off into a hopeful sunrise full of future possibilities.

    "It will be a hard life. One without reward. Without remorse. Without regret. A path will be placed before you. The choice is yours alone. Do what you think you cannot do. It will be a hard life. But in the end you will find out who you are."
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    4,683
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    4,681
    Ratings:
    +7,146 / 32 / -9
    Good questions . . . for another time.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    781
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,331
    Ratings:
    +1,938 / 102 / -30
    Rey's future isn't relevant to the story of the Skywalker Saga, so nothing about the ending of TRoS is open-ended in terms of resolving anything that IS relevant to said Saga and its story.
     
  7. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    4,683
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    4,681
    Ratings:
    +7,146 / 32 / -9
    To be fair, we don’t know what Rey’s future is. We know she’s decided to take the Skywalker name. We know that name is synonymous with being a Jedi. So it’s most certainly implied that she’d be continuing that established legacy forward in some capacity. I don’t see how that’s irrelevant to the “Skywalker Saga”. This chapter in the story is over, but the story itself goes on.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  8. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,353
    Likes Received:
    97,964
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    52,610
    Ratings:
    +105,630 / 160 / -32
    As @eeprom mentioned- Rey is now a Skywalker, so her future story is relevant to the overall story. As marketed in the trailers "The story lives forever."

    Furthermore there are actually quite some important story beats which weren't resolved:
    1) How did Ben Solo fall (this should have been explained in the movies)?
    2) How did Palpatine come back?
    3) Who's Snoke?
    4) How did Maz get Luke's lightsaber?
    etc.

    All these things have an impact on the Skywalker saga, but were never resolved in the movies.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Deukaliwn

    Deukaliwn Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    @eeprom @NinjaRen

    The saga about Jesus begins and ends with the canonical gospels. The story involving his disciples and the church they founded lives on, its still evolving, and is part of the Christians lore, but it's not Jesus story. It's their story. The disciples story, is heavily influenced but the teacher's teachings and actions, but we can't consider their story as a chapter of Jesus story, because that would create a simple problem.

    If one's legacy and the actions of his/hers student(s) are considered to be a part /chapter of the founder's story, then there is no Skywalker story to begin with, since with the same argument we get that the Skywalkers were Jedi students, thus it wasn't their story either. The Skywalkers are just a chapter in the Jedi story. Backtracking (using this premise) we end up that there is only one story, that of the first Jedi, and all the rest are chapters.

    I find it easier, and more logically coherent, to split it up.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Original Original x 1
  10. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Posts:
    442
    Likes Received:
    906
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    1,350
    Ratings:
    +1,238 / 14 / -1
    In TLJ Luke tells Kylo that he won't be the last Jedi, implying Rey will continue the Jedi. Rey herself says in TROS that she is all the Jedi or all the Jedi are in her or something. I think it's safe to say that Rey is a Jedi and even, by virtue of being the only one, a (the?) Jedi Master. I would like to have seen something showing a continuation is going to happen in TROS. It's implied, like many things, but not specifically stated.

    I think from a film making perspective, it's safer to end TROS like they did. It's likely that Rey will train new Jedi and they can maybe make more movies with her later or make novels and comic books and start wherever they want. If they actually showed some footage of her at the end of TROS they would be locked into whatever they showed. They may not have wanted to lock themselves into any specific circumstances for where the story goes next. What if they showed Rey teaching new Jedi at the end of TROS and then Daisy Ridley decided not to return to the franchise? Or worse, died or became somehow unable to reprise the role? While I would have liked to see some Rey/Jedi training camp or something, it was safer not to show it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  11. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    4,683
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    4,681
    Ratings:
    +7,146 / 32 / -9
    Interesting take. The “Skywalker Saga” isn’t just one person’s story though. It’s a generational fable. Anakin begot Luke and Leia who begot Rey who, in all likelihood, will beget other ‘Skywalkers’. LFL didn’t decide to call this the “Luke Saga”. It’s the family’s saga. That family goes on. TROS is a conclusion to the first part of a greater story. It, by design, is most definitely not a definitive conclusion though. If someone chooses to refer to it as 'open-ended', they aren't wrong. The ending is indeed deliberately left open. There absolutely is more to the 'Skywalker Saga' to be told.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    781
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,331
    Ratings:
    +1,938 / 102 / -30
    Three of these questions were answered by the Sequel Trilogy, and the fourth is irrelevant.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. Deukaliwn

    Deukaliwn Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Point taken. Let me put it in another way.

    Suppose, you are building a wiki page about the Skywalker family (the story of all members). You can copy Anakin, Luke , Leia and Ben from the wiki, and paste one after the other. Rey Palpatine would be referenced within this page, and you would have a hyperlink reference pointing to another page. You wouldn't put Rey's complete story within this page since this wiki entry is about the members of the Skywalker family. Han Solo also wouldn't be there, despite being the husband.

    The skywalker family is no more since every descendant died, and all the people involved in their lives are hyperlink references leading to other pages, other stories. This wiki entry is now closed, since all the information about them has been recorded, but other pages outside this entry can grow. So you get two wiki entries; the closed (Skywalker family) and an open and growing one (Rey's).

    Also, you have another entry growing. The Palpatine family wiki, which is a separate entity, and will grow as long as descendants of Palpatine are alive.

    This is just how I organize things in my head, but that doesn't much. It's just more convenient for me.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  14. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    4,683
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    4,681
    Ratings:
    +7,146 / 32 / -9
    That’s certainly is a reasoned approach to differentiating the diverging material.

    I’m more approaching this from what I perceive as one of the underline themes of the story: found family is just as valid as biological family. Rey isn’t less of a Skywalker because she was born a Palpatine. In fact, she’s more so since it was an actual conscious choice on her part. She decided to discard her own lineage and count herself among this other one. The film, I believe, is wanting us to view her as THE heir to this dynasty. No less significant than any other descendant. Her story is a Skywalker story through and through.

    To put it in the same terms - she’d be featured prominently on the Skywalker page. Any Palpatine connections would be the hyperlinks. But my interpretation isn’t any more legitimate than yours :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,353
    Likes Received:
    97,964
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    52,610
    Ratings:
    +105,630 / 160 / -32
    Okay then, can you answer me these three questions in a satisfying way only by the help of the movies? I don't think so. : P
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    781
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,331
    Ratings:
    +1,938 / 102 / -30
    The films themselves offer the answers you were looking for and so there's no reason for me to rehash them here.

    Also, you not finding those answers satisfying doesn't mean that they're nonexistent.
     
  17. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,353
    Likes Received:
    97,964
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    52,610
    Ratings:
    +105,630 / 160 / -32
    Okay then, let's see what the movies give us as answers:

    1) How did Ben Solo fell to the dark side?
    => TFA: "It was Snoke." - Leia
    => TLJ: Luke tried to kill Ben because of a bad vision
    => TROS: Palpatine was every voice in Kylo's head

    That's it in regards of the explanation made by the movies. That's no very satisfying and comprehensible. There is too much left opened (now it's fixed with comics and books).

    2) How did Palpatine survive?
    "Sith magic. Cloning." - Random Resistance member
    "The dark side of the Force is a path way to many abilities some consider to be unnatural." - Zombie Palps

    Again, more ambigious than actual answers.

    3) Who is Snoke?
    He's someone who was either made by Palpatine or he was cloned. But not even that's for sure.
    Furthermore it's contradictory to the established canon.


    If you see these "hints" as answers, then of course- you are satisfied. For my part I'm not satisfied. I don't want a taste from the cake but a whole piece. I paid for it after all. But each to their own I guess.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  18. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    4,220
    Likes Received:
    32,977
    Trophy Points:
    161,027
    Credits:
    32,075
    Ratings:
    +40,088 / 44 / -17
    I have avoided talking about TROS with any depth because: 1) I needed time to gain some perspective 2) I am not the person to ruin other people's party with negativity 3) I needed time to mend my broken heart.. The results are middling, but I can't avoid it forever since, contrary to the shouted opinions, Star Wars isn't going anywhere and TROS is part of it.

    There are two parts of the ending, and I mean the entire ending part of the movie not just last scene, that had any impact on me: the Jedi telling Rey to stand up and the hug between the new Big Three. The latter made an impact mainly due to Boyega's acting, I felt the emotion and it had weight which wasn't the case for the most of the movie. It was a truly beautiful moment. The scene with all the Jedi was powerful emotionally and visually, it did not just made the circle with the beginning of the movie ("they are not with me") and connected the trilogies, albeit on a very surface level, but in my eyes acted as a sort of reformation of the Jedi. They failed Anakin in the most spectacular way, either pinned all their hopes on him or treated him as weapon with only platitudes to comfort his troubles. Standing behind Rey felt important, it was acknowledgment offering strength and courage and it felt that the Jedi were finally united in this one person to defend the galaxy.

    The rest of, well, was like the rest of the movie. It was colorful and expected and shallow pop-corn. The last scene I didn't particularly mind even if I would prefer Rey to remain "nobody". I had a feeling J.J. would end it there and he did. I don't mind that she took the name, it makes more sense than Rey being Palpatine. I minded that your last Jedi, hero of your trilogy, shared this significant moment with a droid. This wasn't Luke burning Vader. Luke but, especially, Leia meant a lot to many people, some of them Rey's friends. It felt isolated and isolating and made just for that last shot so that people can say "it rhymes".

    I accepted the disappointment and I am going to deal with it like I did with the prequels. It's part of the Saga and always will be, but it's all right to dislike it and I can live with watching just the selected scenes from it while enjoying movies that are actually dear to my heart. And I am looking into the future for Star Wars to surprise me again. Mando did it pretty well. :)
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    It is like like one of those 80's OVA's where they tried to compress a 13 episode anime into 4 40 min episodes or when a studio realises they are running out of money or episodes so they just think sod it just chuck everything at it. I would have expected this from a shounen anime or whatever the hell Symphogear is but not Star Wars.

    There were parts that I thought were visually impressive and I used my own logic to fill the gaps in the narrative and created my own story in which the Sith Eternal were like the Earth cultists from Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Though it was fun to create my own stories, this is not something I should have to do with a film like this. If they wanted to do a generational series right, Lucasfilm should have looked into the best manga out there- JJBA. In JJBA, each addition to the series explores different concepts and genres but is linked by the central theme of bloodline and destiny.

    Personally, I feel they could have cut the Canto Bight sequence from TLJ and used it in TROS with there being a gang of oligarchs manipulating the war like Blue Cosmos from Gundam SEED.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Cool Cool x 1
    • Original Original x 1
  20. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Cantina's Mad-Hatter
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Posts:
    499
    Likes Received:
    25,435
    Trophy Points:
    148,967
    Credits:
    9,681
    Ratings:
    +26,310 / 0 / -1
    1 Ben was betrayed by his uncle then Snoke tempted him with power to destroy them. All the mommy and daddy issue aside.
    2 Palpatine was never seen dying he was throw of ledge and we know Luke survived one.
    3 Snoke was just a tool.
    4 Maz is bought it from the garbage guy who picked it up off the ground under Cloud city.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Cool Cool x 1
Loading...

Share This Page