The Ending: Beautiful, but problematic

You are confusing opinion with fact.

And people who enjoyed it are being honest. If that bothers you, the problem is within you, not the other people.

 

Aw, can't we call it 'Doug'?

(I disagree with your opinion, but that's ok, though stating it as fact doesn't change it from subjective to objective. Sorry you didn't like it.)

 

IDK about full Reylo but if they kept Ben Solo alive, he could have ended it on Tattooine with the lightsabers burying them, moving into an old abandoned home in the desert, set to accept his penance on the planet where his lineage started.

 

Technically, he’s just giving her back the life she gave him. Which is very courteous if you ask me. See, kids. Always return the things you borrow.

Well, no. Claudia Gray’s canon novel ‘Bloodline’ makes special effort to really drive this premise home. Leia 100% thought of Bail and Breha Organa as her true parents. She had zero reverence for her biological father the way Luke did. She didn’t make the distinction between Anakin and Vader the way he did. She resented being his daughter and she resented the power she possessed because of him. That’s one of the reasons given for why she deliberately didn’t follow the path of the Jedi. But, books are books and movies are movies . . . even though they’re supposed to be one in the same

Anyway, it does a disservice to the character to suggest that it was nothing but a name to her. ‘Organa’ was a part of Leia’s chosen identity every bit as much as you’re proposing ‘Skywalker’ would be for Rey. Leia was presented as a mentor figure in far greater capacity than Luke in the narrative, an adoptive mother basically, just as Leia herself had been adopted. I’m not really in favor of the idea, but absolutely makes more sense than ‘Skywalker’.

 

Leia was the only "pure" Skywalker who didn't either go full darkside or have bouts with it. It makes a lot more sense for Organa than Skywalker tbh.

 

It would be have been as cringeworthy as, if not more than, everything that took place between Anakin and Padme on that planet...which also apparently bore the fruit of the Palpatine family from which Rey came and that she rejected (one more reason why not). All the more reason to simply leave Naboo behind. For those that still reside there, whether under water or on ground, they can keep that fake-pristine, beautiful planet for themselves... but I for one want nothing to do with it or any potential or realized romances that could, did, or may ever take place on it.




I have spoken.

 

Okay that's what you think. But your thoughts on the matter have no functional meaning or relation to the narrative. What I mean is that "weak" is being used as a measure and without a frame of practical measure the word has no meaning. You may as well say "I just think that it was flerphsin" because "flerphsin" has the same functional meaning, which is none. The way you're employing the word is as an insult with no functional meaning other than to convey a negative connotation.

In other words you're stating an insult as a conclusion. That's all you're doing. It's like if I said the color green was weak. What does that actually mean? It means nothing. It has no linguistic value other than as a rhetoric device conveying an irrational emotional value claim. And I will agree that we can criticize anything we wish by way of irrational emotional value claims - but it makes for meaningful discussion to be impossible.

But, being honest, I find that the case is usually that meaningful discussion is meant to be impossible by most critics of, well, just about anything. It's not meaningful discussion that is desired - it is the ability to judge and insult others without interference from that ever-present, ever-annoying concept called reason.

Okay so Anakin may have hated Tatooine. So if I ask you the question, "What planet is Anakin's home?" your answer is? Tatooine? But how can this be when he hated Tatooine? Answer that and you'll have begun to understand the concept of the word "home" and how it relates to Rey's claim of heritage; and how that heritage origin exists independently of memories or feelings about said home.

And I meant that she is the embodiment of the Skywalker legacy. That's the actual narrative resolution. I have no idea what you mean with the words "mythologically spoken" in relation to your statement.

Again, none of your words actually make any sense. There's no context with which to draw meaning from them causing them all to constitute gibberish. This is the result of employing abstract words with no functional meaning but only rhetorical meaning. This type of misuse of language can stir up emotions and sound the horn on the bandwagon, but what it cannot do is allow for meaningful discussion (if meaningful discussion is even the point of the horn-sounding).

But, as for "on-point" the narrative is about claiming heritage based on spirit, the protagonist claims heritage based on spirit. It's about the transcendent rise of the name Skywalker beyond bloodline in a story called the Rise of Skywalker. You can't get more "on point" than that. If I'm even understanding what you're meaning by your use of the phrase "on point" - admittedly, your words are so ambiguously employed it's difficult to find any functional meaning in them.

Except as a relation to her claim of heritage. Being the home of her heritage claim, it's the roots of her identity. It's an idea as a home in relation to identity. This is why when Ben says Leia is gone, Han responds that, "What she stood for, that's not gone." You guys are clearly missing the narrative theme of claiming identity and the roots of that identity which is established quite clearly in the narrative. How it's possible you've missed something so clearly stated is far more interesting a subject to explore than this actual discussion of the film.

Except Ach-To isn't the narrative origin of the Skywalker name. So it makes no sense at all from a narrative perspective. It's not even connected to the narrative in the slightest way.

Well, that's not true, their is a narrative weight in relation to the claim of heritage being made as the resolution to the story about what consitutes the stronger heritage claim: blood or spirit? But you've missed the entire point of the narrative, so without understanding the story and the movement of the narrative, then any story will only contain what you brought to it since the story itself was lost on you.

Well, on a desert world the places probably get a lot of sandblasting done to them.

Well, yeah. They were her "true parents" - spiritually. Because spirit (i.e. the idea stood for) has stronger meaning to heritage than blood. This is the point, and why Rey claims the name Skywalker. She is adopted into the Skywalker family by nature of her spirit.

Yes, good. I'm glad that you understand the basic idea conveyed by the narrative. It appears difficult for many to grasp.

No, because Rey is igniting a lightsaber as a Jedi. That is the core of her heritage - a Jedi. When Rey asked "Be with me" at the end, we didn't hear Bail Organa, there's a reason for that. It has to do with who Rey is. She's a Jedi. And Luke was every bit as important to her destiny as Leia. For Rey to claim the adoptive heritage of Leia, as an adoptive adoptive heritage makes no sense at all in relation to who Rey is (Jedi being at the core of her identity), the least of which is narrative sense (which is about the rise of the Jedi and the rise of the name claimed as heritage in that rise).

 

But it was a bad place for the Skywalkers.
Anakin hated it. Sand is not beloved by Skywalkers. His mother was murdered there. He was essentially a slave there. He committed his first genocide there.
Luke hated it and wanted to leave. His aunt and uncle who raised him were brutally murdered there.
Leia's only time there was as the sex slave of a space slug.

Tattooine is only important for the viewers. It's actually a bad place. Like awful. And contains only bad memories for those in the story. Why would she go there of all places? "Hey my grandpa survived the Holocaust. Might as well send him back to Auschwitz to be buried. I'm sure he'd understand the meaning!"

No one is missing anything, don't resort to the lame "Oh I'm so much smarter!" bantha poodoo. She is claiming them at a place that held no positive notions from the Skywalkers. That is dumb. It's lazy. It's done to get a cheap pop from the crowd. Like a pro-wrestler in New York dogging on Boston.

Yavin 4 makes a better place because it's where they all were when the day was saved in ANH. It has positive memories of one of their biggest triumphs. Hell even Endor works better. It should have been a place of triumph, where the goodness in them won the day. Not a place they hated, pretty much only bad things happened and everyone wanted to get the hell away from.

It's not where you're from. It's the choices you make that define you. One of the defining themes of the movie for at least the first two films. Not so much in the third. A Palpatine/Skywalker on Tattooine isn't the most fan service-y bantha poodoo ever? Come on.

 

Are you channeling The Dark Crystal with the essence comment? If so, I LOVE it.

 

I’d tend to be more inclined to agree with you had TROS progressed the natural trajectory instigated from TFA and promoted by TLJ. The name ‘Skywalker’, with regard to the GFFA at large, is perceived with mythical regard and synonymous with the idea of ‘Jedi’ as a whole. The Jedi in turn, we’re told, represent the element of hope for the galaxy. TLJ ends with Luke regaining that personage. He reembraces his identity as a Skywalker, as a Jedi, as a beacon of hope. He implies that Rey would be the inheritor of that legacy. She’d be the new hope, the new Jedi, the new Skywalker. That’s lovely.

The ending of TROS is wonderfully in concert with that setup, but, I argue, not its own body. How much of TROS is actually about that theme? Of being a Skywalker, of being a Jedi, of being a beacon of hope? It isn’t absent, but it’s certainly not the focus in my perception. It’s about Rey struggling with her own perceived dangerousness to those she’s formed bonds with, whether her pursuit of this nebulous goal is contributing to that, and whether her discovered lineage makes that consequence inevitable. That’s also lovely.

However, within the story of TROS itself, what does being a beacon of hope MEAN to her? What does being a Jedi MEAN to her? What does the name Skywalker MEAN to her? What does it mean to those around her? Why is she pursuing this path in the first place? Does she even want it and why? It all comes down to a place of belonging and worth and value for her. And, from what little we got, that’s exactly what Leia provided her far above anyone else. Leia by choice, although a beacon of hope in her own right, was not a Jedi and not a Skywalker. She was powerful in the Force, but retained her own identity. She was her own person and not defined by blood or magic. She’s everything the Rey we met on Jakku would hope to emulate.

Admittedly, I’ve only seen the movie once and may not have noticed how this episode connects to what was a very pronounced theme of the previous one. My opinion might evolve over time once I’ve been able to really delve.

 

I probably wouldn't have been using the term essence if the recent Netflix series weren't so happily fresh in my mind ;-)

 

That third bullet point has me scratching my head... we don't know what the context of the question was. As this is more then likely clickbait, but wha?

 

It's an amazing series and I can't wait for more.

 

FWIW, I'm perfectly okay with with Rey memorializing Luke and Leia on Tatooine because it's basically where the Skywalker lineage began, with Shmi way back in Episode I., not to mention the place where Luke spent his formative years. Unfortunately, Alderaan is gone, so there's no good option for Leia. Anyone up for Polis Massa? Didn't think so.

The scene reminds me of this quote:

A human life, I think, should be well rooted in some area of native land where it may get the love of tender kinship from the earth, for the labors men go forth to, for the sounds and accents that haunt it, for whatever will give that early home a familiar unmistakable difference amidst the future widening of knowledge. The best introduction to astronomy is to think of the nightly heavens as a little lot of stars belonging to one's own homestead. - George Eliot

Good that at least Luke should be memorialized there, where the stars of his homestead once fueled his imagination.

And the last shot of Rey and BB-8 against the binary sunset recalls, at least for me, the last shot of THX-1138, which I posted in the "Visual Poetry" thread.

 

As I figured, it was clickbait...

Since the soundtrack on Tatooine is titled “A New Home,” is Rey now living on Tatooine even though it’s a return to the isolation she suffered on Jakku?

"I can say with confidence that neither the screenplay nor the film suggest that Rey is going to live alone on Tatooine. The track names on the soundtrack were at the discretion of the master himself, John Williams. I can't presume to say what John meant when he titled the piece "A New Home," but I can say that Rey's arc over three films has to do with her finding the belonging she seeks with the new family she's found inside the Resistance. The very last thing Rey would do after all that is to go and live alone in a desert. In our thinking, Rey goes back to Tatooine as a pilgrimage in honor of her two Skywalker masters. Leia's childhood home, Alderaan, no longer exists, but Luke's childhood home, Tatooine, does. Rey brings the sabers there to honor the Skywalker twins by laying them to rest -- together, finally -- where it all began. The farthest planet from the bright center of the universe, but a beautiful and peaceful place to bury two sacred objects."

I think "A New Home" implies the Resistance, Finn, Poe, Chewie and Rose. The latest episode of Resistance implies that. As far as honoring the Skywalker legacy goes...? I don't know as @RoyleRancor said, it's a place that as done more harm then good for the Skywalker legacy. I dunno you couldn't have chosen Naboo were Anakin and Padme got married? I mean, that's really where it all started. Ending on a place that is green as opposed to sand would've made her line TFA that much more impactful to. "I've never seen so much green in the whole galaxy."

tps://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-writer-sets-record-straight-perceived-last-jedi-jabs-1265168

 

I rather liked it. I get what your saying though.

 

Luke didn't hate Tatooine; like many 19-year olds, he was simply restless; he also wanted to join Biggs - someone he looked up to and respected - in the Rebellion.

 

Even if Luke hated Tatooine as a good (but sightly whinge-y) teenager, it doesn’t mean he’d hate his lightsaber to be buried there decades later after he’d transcended from being a next-level Jedi master into part of the Force that retained his identity. Luke and Leia are now at peace.

Also, we didn’t see Anakin object to Shmi being buried there in Episode II... which IMHO both undermines the ‘but they all hated the place...’ argument as an obstacle to it making sense, whilst also providing yet another reason why it was coming full circle in story terms.

I’ll also mention Vader had his castle on Mustafar, so there’s a lovely symmetry in a place where the dark side drew on a location of hate and pain, whereas whatever else, Anakin and Luke had the love and support of their families, even if those ended badly. I think it’s good to honour that. Alderaan wasn’t an option for Leia for somewhat obvious reasons!

Also, note that Luke and Leia as seen at the end of the film appear transparent but not sparkly blue. I find that an interesting choice, and I’d be interested to see everyone’s take on that specifically. I’ll post my thoughts on that later, because I want to watch it again first. I also want to confirm/take another look at something else that is bugging me about people’s reaction to this ending...