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SPOILER The Ending: Beautiful, but problematic

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by NinjaRen, Jan 5, 2020.

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Did you like the ending on Tatooine

  1. Yes

    53 vote(s)
    69.7%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    17.1%
  3. I would have preferred... (please post down below)

    10 vote(s)
    13.2%
  1. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    True, first you need to people that see Rey arrive with Ben to react in a way that the audience believes. You will always have people be cranky in the galaxy, but to establish the HEA his initial welcome and what they show on screen needs to establish the start of the HEA.

    Is Poe going to react to him well?
    Finn?
    Rose?
    Chewie?
    Zori?
    Maz?
    Rest of resistance

    I believe it is a hard task to get the audience to believe that. Dont get me wrong, I love the idea of a HEA. I just have never felt a believable narrative could be put together.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2020 ---
    Yes "alot" are angry. Doesnt mean that the alot are a sizeable percentage. What like 15 million tickets will be sold to see TROS. 100K people angry is alot, but is it a sizeable percentage? How about 500K.

    That doesn't even take into account is what they wanted plausible, believable?
     
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I think Chewie and Maz would be the first to accept him if any would.
     
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  3. stephied

    stephied Rebel General

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    Yes, I liked that the movie ended in Tatoonie, I just didn't like Rey giving herself the last name Skywalker. Everytime I see the ending in the theater, I roll my eyes. I would have perfered her saying, "Rey, Jedi Knight, like the Skywalkers before me". To me it makes more sense about Rey preserving the legacy of the Jedi, Keeping the force in balance, her found family is Finn and Poe. Her saying "Rey Skywalker" just does not ring true to me. It feels forced and it feels like she is usurping the Skywalker name and family legacy. I get she doesn't want to use the Palpatine name, but I liked her as just, Rey, Jedi Knight. Yoda didn't have a last name.

    There is a lot to TROS that I did like, I just didn't like too fast pacing, the quick killing off of Ben Solo, and Rey giving herself the last name of Skywalker. I do wish that they did hint at the Emperor coming back since TFA, to have it in the last movie all of sudden appear, is jarring.

    As for the this sequel trilogy, my feelings for it is as movies, they are fun popcorn entertainment, as for the mythos to the Skywalker family, it left me feeling depressed. The whole Skywalker family died in the saga. (Anakin - to save his son, Padme - dies of a broken heart (Palpatine may have played a part in her death), Han Solo - died by patricide from his son, Luke - died by using all the force energy he had to force project himself to distract Kylo Ren in order for resistance to escape. Leia died to distract her son and try to bring him back to the light, Ben Solo - gave his life force to Rey, in order to bring Rey back to life. No happy endings. This saga is a tragedy. The only happy ending with hope when it comes to the Skywalkers is at the end of Return of The Jedi.
     
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  4. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Really with Chewie witnessing him killing Han and Maz having her home and who knows how many of her friends/customer killed in his assault on her castle?
     
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  5. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    I would have preferred Rey walking into the Massassi temple on Yavin IV, looking around, swiping some dust off of some equipment with her finger and saying, "This will do. Come on in!"

    (If this is not possible because Yavin IV or the temple are no longer feasible due to events in some comic or novel, then pick some other location, even the Jedi temple on Coruscant or the temple on Ach-To.)

    Then Finn, broom boy and some other random people walk in, maybe wearing Jedi-like robes.

    We didn't get to see Luke establish any new Jedi and now we don't get to see Rey do it either.

    You could then fade out and fade back in to the scene on Tatooine. I too would have liked to see Anakin and Ben with Luke and Leia when Rey says she's Rey Skywalker. I don't have any issue with her taking that name. I do get it, but, her parents (who presumably had the last name Palpatine unless her dad didn't go by that name) did DIE instead of giving up her location. That's a compelling reason to stick with the Palpatine name. I can see both.

    If she had said, "Rey Palpatine" instead of "Rey Skywalker", I could see it playing out like this:

    Old woman: There's been no one for so long. Who are you?

    Rey: I'm Rey.

    Old woman: Rey who?

    Rey: Rey.....Palpatine.

    Old woman: Palpatine? Like the emperor?

    Rey: Like my parents.
     
    #105 Obi5Kenobi, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Chewie knew him since he was a kid. He would probably know Leia and Han would want it. I'm not saying it'd be hugs and teaching him to ride a bike, but it'd be less strenuous than others.

    Maz was apparently with Leia at the end. She'd probably know what Leia was doing and why. She'd honor that. Again, not BFFs but less hostile than say Finn or Poe would be.
     
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  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Leia wanted her son back, thus she forgave him.
    Han wanted his son back, thus he forgave him.
    Luke wanted his nephew back, thus he forgave him.
    Rey wanted Kylo to become Ben again, thus she forgave him.

    This was all believable, wasn't it? So, why shouldn't it believable for the rest of the galaxy? Besides, why should Ben even care about that? The ones he cared about forgave him and that's all what matters.


    I actually like that. Epsecially after she said to the emperor that her parents were strong. Apparently not strong enough to take their name.
     
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  8. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Couple things. Did Han really forgive him. In TROS that is Ben memory of his father. Ben is really talking to himself.
    Luke. When did he forgive him?

    OK I think your post is exactly why those people would forgive him and why the rest of the galaxy wont. They all had a deep personal relationship with Ben. No one else did.
     
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  9. Yoda 2

    Yoda 2 Rebel Official

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    I'm looking forward to Star Wars moving away from "Who's your Father?" narratives. I want some fresh revealing twists that aren't about lineage.
     
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  10. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Yes, Han forgave him in TFA, but Kylo/Ben didn't forgive himself. This is the reason why the scene re-appears again in TROS. Kylo accepts the offer of forgiveness as he should have done it before.

    In TLJ on Crait. Actually Luke is asking for forgiveness. But for me Luke's "I am sorry" was a form of forgiveness.

    And this is all what we need. The main characters forgive him, so do we. We should want what they want. Furthermore no one really knows that Ben is Kylo Ren.
     
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  11. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    OK I never tool Han as forgiving Ben. Same for Luke, what I remember most at the end was Luke taunting Kylo. Really trying to piss the kid off to distract him

    What is Rey supposed to say to all the angry people at the Resistance base.

    Hey, hey wait up everyone. Luke forgave him, Han forgave him. etc. etc. I dont think that sounds very effective.
     
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  12. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    With all the comments about how the Skywalker legacy is a disastrous failure that should not be honored, I have to point out that this is only true because of the ST.

    If you stop at what I call “the real ending” (ROTJ), then the Skywalker legacy took a horrible dark turn - but then redeemed itself to restore peace, and they all lived happily ever after (well, that’s how I see it anyway).

    Part of the reason I still call the a ST “fanfic” is because it took our beloved Skywalkers and turned them into either villains or cameos. If you’re OK with that, then good for you - but my head canon says no. :D
     
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  13. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Imperial tie no hyperdrive. It's a fake out. Lol
     
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  14. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

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    *cough* Late Rebellion/ Early NR, I know it's easy to mix up the two though ;) :p
    And why would they? It's a catch 22. According to the internet we can disagree with a film, but we can't come up with any better alternatives. So, in that case maybe the ones actually being paid tens of thousands of dollars should take the time to do so.

    There's many different types of cake, but I don't need to be a dessert connoisseur to know which ones people put more effort into when decorating the surface of said cakes.
     
    #114 GingerByte, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
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  15. oldbert

    oldbert Jedi General

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    Do you want a story about hope, love and forgivness as a lighthouse for your kids and how the Skywalkers (=Solos, Organas) succeed against all odds..
    ..OR..
    .. a story about how shadows of an evil empire and failures of the past destroy a family and lead to everyone's death at the end, the tragedy of the Skywalkers?
     
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  16. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Touching your son's face after he killed you, is definitely meant as forgiveness.

    He did. But in the first place he tried to lecture his nephew. Hadn't he forgiven him, then Luke wouldn't have killed himself.

    No one needs to know though.

    This. This is a much better message for children.
     
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  17. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Oh come on Star Wars fans throw out sequences and theories left and right, now when they want a particularly thing to happen they cant come up with anything other then the writers should have come up with something. Maybe, just maybe they tried. I mean who wouldnt want a happily ever after ending? I am certain they knocked around ideas and just thought, nope doesnt work, maybe they even filmed some and still said nope doesnt work.

    Some times our head canon just doesnt really work on screen. Sometimes it ends up like the Patton Oswald filibuster on Parks and Recreation which may be fun would be nuts on screen.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2020 ---
    OK if you say so, it could also mean I cant believe you did that. It could simply mean goodbye.
    What? Luke killed himself for the Resistance not Ben.
    Huh? How does this work? Rey sends him to some other planet and then leaves her friends and that is the happily ever after. Rey who years to belong and develops these friendships just gives them up for Ben.
    The message seemed to work for kids and Anakin in ROTJ. I mean we are talking a mass murderer here. It is a good message to teach kids that the world will just forgive that and let you off scott free? The message of redemption and everlasting life happened. That is a good message for kids. The message that all you did had no consequences to the people you harmed isnt a good one I dont think. Saving Rey and Ben living is what Anakin wanted with Padme. He wanted to be able to stop her from dying, but he wanted a selfishly he wanted to possess her.
     
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  18. iostream

    iostream Rebelscum

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    Is it irony that you've got a Ben Kenobi avatar but don't realize that the OT is "a story about how the shadows of an evil empire and failures of the past destroy a man and lead to his death, the tragedy of the Ben Kenobi"? Yoda? Anakin? The tragedy of the former generation who all gave their lives to save the future for the next generation?

    Why do you think Ben Kenobi is smiling at the end of ROTJ? How can he be smiling in the face of the tragedy of Ben Kenobi?

    The fact that you're comparing an idea-woven narrative structure built on thematic motifs which can't be seen but must be comprehended in the mind, to a cake which is only visible to the eyes, is exactly why you shouldn't be doing any criticizing of anything requiring mental conceptualization. To you it's all surface visibility with no depth perception. No proper frame of reference. No proper contextualization.

    This is why your guys' criticisms are... just... you know when a child hears adults talking and tries to get in on the conversation, repeating some of the terms he's heard being used and the kid opens his mouth and this stream of nonsense comes out and you're just like, embarrassed but the kid just wants to be respected and seen as a peer so you wish he could but he can't and you don't know exactly how to respond to his, addition to the conversation? And the kid is going to get upset and maybe even angry if he isn't placated in some fashion? And then some of the kids are just, mean-spirited looking to hurt the other kids? And you're just, wondering - what am I supposed to do here? And you look around and the kid's parents are nowhere to be seen. And then you start to wonder, is this a dream? What planet is this? How did I get here? How do I get out? Is anybody here with me? Where's the ejector seat on this thing?

    It's like that. Welcome to my world.
     
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  19. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Quote from the official TFA novel:
    "Han forgave his son for what he had done. He prayed someday his son would forgive him in turn."
    Now guess what happened in TROS.

    Then you misunderstood Rian's intention with that very scene. Luke killed himself, so Kylo can't do it. The whole trilogy Kylo wanted to get rid of his past to go full dark side. He had to kill his family, but Luke did something smart. He killed himself, so Kylo couldn't succeed. At this moment it was clear, Ben will rise. I may not like TLJ, but I can't deny that Rian understood the characters.

    If you are in relationship, you won't see your friends 24/7.

    I didn't say there wouldn't be any consequences. But it's much better message for kids if we actually see the consequences. How the person deals with them.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The more I think on it, the more I really like the idea of a vagabond Ben Solo travelling the galaxy making up for his past.
     
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