The Fate of Ben Solo

but unfortunately effective...

 

I would agree. Snoke saying Kylo is "pure, strong and unbreakable" is more about what Snoke wants Kylo to be rather than what he actually is. A lot of what Snoke does involves lifting Kylo's ego, making him believe he's something special and creating the illusion that he's unbreakable. Fortunately for Kylo, Rey has given him a bit of a reality check, and he now knows he's not as strong or unbreakable as he might've thought he was before.

If Snoke can create life with the force and was involved with Anakin's creation, then he would gain a lot from from possessing Ben. Using Ben could fulfil Snoke's original plan of using Anakin to destroy the Jedi. Snoke reminiscing about Ben's origins could be him revelling in the secret of the Skywalkers. But this is coming from the views of a Plagueisite!

 

Having Kylo Ren sacrifice himself to achieve redemption would just be a total "repeat" of the OT - but on the other hand, it's hard to think of any other ending that would even make sense. I don't think it would be a satisfying ending if he just stays evil and gets killed, but it also doesn't make sense to me that he would be able to turn back to the light side and just forget about the evil he has committed.

I know Kylo Ren is a popular character, but if I can be honest about my personal opinion, I see him as a sniveling wannabe, and I just don't feel that deep desire to see him redeem himself, unlike with Anakin.

 

You can be honest, because I kind of feel the same way about Anakin--I only want Vader to be redeemed for Luke's sake when I watch ROTJ.

I wouldn't want a redeemed Ben to forget about the evil he has committed, because he wouldn't be redeemed if he didn't want to make restitution (at least) for his crimes. So there has to be some way for him to "pay" for his crimes if he does live--maybe exile? I don't know how TPTB would arrange that.

In any case, even if I didn't want Ben to be redeemed for his own sake, I'd want it for Han (so his last moments of love were not in vain) and for Leia, and even for Luke, so their responsibility toward him can be resolved in a positive way.

 

This a topic very very powerful.I will try to explain the best i can.Ben Solo is one person.Kylo Ren is "another" person.Two persons in one body.I see that when Kylo Ren kill his father(Han Solo)he do it like Ben Solo NOT like Kylo Ren.He was without his mask so he do it like Ben Solo.He do it to finish himself.In other words Ben Solo is "killing" himself.He told that to Han Solo in the catwalk...remember.

Watch that part again and again and you will see things more better and clear.When Ben give the light saber to Han and the sun went out Han see that and feel that something is going on.You can see Han eyes and watch the hand of Ben with the light saber.He is getting back the light saber and pulling it back from Han hands.Ben REALLY want to finish Ben Solo.He do it by killing Han.In this moment is when i can understand that Ben Solo is dead and Kylo Ren is Born.He was fighting with this feeling and emotion for a long time.Is what i can understand.The ONLY way that Ben Solo can come back to life is that Kylo Ren "kill" Kylo Ren.What happen when Darth Vader was watching the emperor killing Luke?He save his son Luke.It was LOVE and THE LIGHT.For me LOVE and THE LIGHT works together.LOVE will bring back Ben Solo to the LIGHT.Will he died...MAYBE BUT he will be PULL to the LIGHT first.For me the fate for Ben Solo is....LIGHT because LOVE will bring him back.Now the BIG question is....WHO will bring Ben Solo to the LIGHT again???.....Let me think.........Let me think.....It will be.....YES....YES....It will be Luke....


This is how my story goes.Hope you like it.....

 

I hope you are right about Luke... I could see it going this way:

 

What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
no matter how intelligent you are.
It is the great mystery. -- Lao Tzu​

Why is the above quote relevant? Why would Rey (the good) get lost if she didn't teach Kylo (the bad)?

It's because denying Kylo, writing him off as "a monster" or as someone who does not matter, strengthens Rey's ego, which is the illusion of separation. Just by Rey thinking she is better than Kylo will further strengthen the illusions of separateness. In most cases, conflict is driven by ego, created by the labels that we use to define ourselves and others, and it is only when we look beyond those labels and illusions that we ever have the hope of achieving lasting peace and harmony. When Rey distances herself from Kylo, she is closing her mind to suppress and reject the very simple notion that even evil men are capable of becoming good.

It's only when Rey sees herself as one with Kylo that both Rey and Kylo can return to the way of the Force. For the Force exists in every living thing - both the dark and the light. Yoda and Obi-Wan were wrong about Vader, they were wrong about Force.

In the beginning was the Tao.
All things issue from it,
all things return to it.
To find the origin,
trace back the manifestations.
When you recognise the children
and find the mother,
you will be free of sorrow.
If you close your mind in judgements
and traffic with desires,
your heart will be troubled.
If you keep your mind from judging
and aren't lead by the senses,
your heart will find peace.
Seeing into darkness is clarity.
Knowing how to yield is strength.
Use your own light and return to the source of light.
This is called practising eternity. -- Lao Tzu​

Luke's triumph in destroying the Empire and the Sith wasn't what made him a great hero, it was his triumph in inspiring evil to pursue goodness. To inspire goodness from the cold depths of evil was far more impressive and far more powerful than anything Luke could've learned from the Jedi. It was (and will remain) the single greatest thing he will ever discover about the force.

Although, I have to admit this was pretty darn impressive...



It was Luke's human qualities - his compassion, his empathy, his virtuousness, his open-mindedness, his selflessness, his perseverance - that elevated him to greatness. It had nothing to do with the force. Now with the sequel trilogy, his legacy will be defined by what impact his teachings imprint upon Rey. Will the wisdom he gained as a young Jedi, when he inspired his father, have been for nothing? Despite Luke's insight, will Rey still kill Kylo out of her anger and hate for his wicked crimes, thus undermining the greatest message Star Wars ever taught me?

Similar to Luke, Rey's greatness won't be defined by her "badassness" or by her simply destroying Snoke and Kylo (for that is inevitable, the hero will always defeat the villain). For me, her greatness will stem from her humanity, because that's how I can relate to her and that's how she can inspire me. Her greatness will ultimately flow from how well she can deal with her own adversity, her own prejudices, her own fears, her own anger, her own past. It will flow from how well she can open her mind to learn from others, to accept others, to inspire others, to empathise with others.

With the already familiar story that TFA has presented us with (a good, young Jedi-Skywalker boy manipulated to the dark side by an evil, old, decrepit dark-sider), the only satisfactory conclusion, without ripping the heart, soul and legacy out of this story and out of our beloved characters, is for Rey to follow in Luke's path and inspire Kylo to return to the light.

 

@kb93, What a great post!

Especially this part of the Dao De Jing you quoted I think illustrates Ben Solo trully very well..

Here is another wise Daoist quote that fits Ben Solo's return to the light I think:

“Cease striving. Then there will be transformation.”
― Zhuangzi

He is now being torn apart. The moment he stops striving against the light in him he will be transformed...I believe that.

 

Great posts above @kb93 and @Moral Hazard.
Your "Inspiration" notes lead me to an interresting thought: Is Luke looking for sthg on Ach-To that he hopes could help him to inspire or convince Ren, that the dark side can never be stronger in a long time perspective. What if Luke is awaiting his former apprentice? What if he has prepared himself for this confrontation he has found sthg or a place that is extraordenary strong in the force?

And maybe when Ren arrives, his old Master has already developed a way to show Kylo what the force really means and what possibilities you have in the force if you don't use it in the highly energy consuming ways like the Sith.
I think that Kylo comes with hate and wants to destroy Luke and capture Rey for Snoke...but I hope that he finally will have a moment of full understanding.. inspired by a great Luke who would in that way become our humanistic hero once again.
I would love that.. Luke as the better Yoda

What if Ren comes to Ach-To fully believing in the ultimate strength of the dark side and has to learn that Luke is much stronger in the force than Vader or Snoke ever could have been? And as a conclusion Ben had the opportunity to get much stronger than Kylo ever will be able to ...

That could be a real blast for Kylos ego or even the"death" of Kylos ego, and the beginning of a painful comeback of Ben in full awareness of everything he has done.
He would need someone at his side after such a shocking reveal.. Rey
(and I do NOT mean any romance stuff, just someone with an understanding of the struggle with the extreme aspects of the force).

 

I would hope Ben finds balance through a desire for resitution, belonging, and peace and that strength and power are optional benefits and not incentives!

 

I just have to say don't you guys like originality? Kylo is a Master Knight of Ren 4 life son! #goodisdumb #avengeHan

 

True. Strength may be not the best word in that context. But when Luke for example could show him a powerful Force Vision with his former masters or even with Anakin that became one with the force; it could have a huge impact on Kylo.

@SithSorcererofdeath: Could be like you post it here. But that would not be a story arc in the Thread-Context like I have understood its Title "The Fate of BEN.."
If Kylo stays Kylo in terms of becoming a more evil badass Kylo.. I will have to deal with that too