The Fate of Ben Solo

Oooo that's deep, I hadn't considered that before.

A step further....

Ben knows that his mother is about to die. As the light fades, Ben saves his father from the heartache of losing her.

 

Yeah I fully agree too ... Ben pretty much was forced to choose between his mom and dad and Disney switched it up so that they killed his dad instead of his mom which they do in pretty much every other movie .

 

lol I'm not done there.

The scene on the bridge:-
"I know what I must do. I don't know if I'm strong enough to do it. Will you help me?"

What if he wasn't talking to his father? What if.... he was talking to his mother?

 

That scene on the bridge is so crucial. I'm sure Kylo is thinking about his mom. And I think their next meeting will be crucial. Leai still believes in him, and I'm sure that even after Han's murder she will still be able to sense her son. And I'm pretty sure we will hear a dialogue when Leia says it...

But back to the bridge on Starkiller Base with Han. It is very interesting that in the dialogue in the novelization Han says "Your mom misses you", instead of the final version in the movie is "We miss you"...The way Kylo reacts to these words is to basically almost cry. We can see he almost breaks down at this...
When his father says "Come back home with me" and he says "It's too late", it also reminds me of what Vader said to Luke in ROTJ (if I remember correctly) - "It's too late for me, son"...
But I don't think it is too late for Ben Solo. He will manage to find balance and will come back. He must.
And as I said in earlier post I think the bridge scene is actually the beginning of his redemption arc.

But we really need more information about Kylo's turn, about his relationship with his parents, about Luke and his academy. What happened?! I basically cannot imagine how will I manage without knowing for so long...Not exaggerating either. I'm so intrigued.

Here is an interesting bit from The Art of the Force Awakens:
(Art During the Production Stage in July 2014.)
“These images are a huge metaphoric exploration about the light and the dark side of the Force, which I had long discussions with Rick about. The wide shot of the light glimmer just hitting the two of them– that’s the Force essentially making its decision.” – Jenkins




What this excerpt above implies is extremely intriguing to me as it seems to imply that the Force makes a choice/decision! What an interesting and new notion of the Force...The Force has agency?!!
(This can possibly also be applied to the scene when both Kylo and Rey beckon for Anakin's lightsaber and it goes to Rey, which could be interpreted as the Force making a decision...)

But if the above scene is the Force making a decision, then the implications are big...Does it mean that the Force controls the decisions made?!! That it pushes events to some end? Very intriguing...

But back to the scene. Another interesting aspect of this scene in the movie is the music playing during it - the track is Torn Apart which I also think illustrates how conflicted Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is...Totally my speculation, but somehow I feel that this track is if two different themes are interwoven - one which we can recognise as Kylo Ren's (dark side) theme but preceding it is a very gentle theme that is perhaps possibly a hidden theme for Ben Solo?
The track begins exactly when Kylo says: I'm being torn apart, I want to be free of this pain"...until then there is no music playing while they talk...The gentle melancholic melody (my interpretation as Ben Solo's theme - light side) turns into Kylo Ren's theme (dark side) when Kylo stabs Han...and then changes into the gentle (Ben Solo?) theme when Han touches Kylo's cheek...(I was specifically paying attention when watching the scene last time...)

Torn apart:

I also noticed that Han and Leia's theme in TFA has just a bit of Kylo's theme (around 3:42 mark) which is immediately followed with a bit of the Force theme. Very interesting.

Han and Leia:

 

I wouldn't say necessarily that the force has an agency...it probably makes a decision based on the connections within individuals but I DO AGREE that the Ben Solo and the light side, from what we were told through that art book, is very telling...I mean, who knows, even LFL/Disney haven't caught on that she let something so important slip about his fate...OR MAYBE IT WAS ON PURPOSE .

 

I also do doubt that Bloodlines will give out much...The story of Kylo's turn is far too important to be revealed in a book that most people simply won't read...The very least it should give us a tidbit about the timeline hopefully...When did Kylo join the Knights of Ren, help destroy Luke's academy, etc. The big "why-s" and "how-s" should be developed in the movies...Kylo's turn and Rey's background are far too important to be revealed elsewhere and not in the movies...But, Bloodlines may betray some details that can give us something while we wait...
I'm definitely going to read Bloodlines though...

I also don't know about the agency of the Force...That's completely new concept...That passage in The Art of...struck me with the possible implications implied...I really hope in VIII there will be something more to learn about the Force and some new aspects of it we didn't know...I think that is guaranteed...There will definitely be something about "the balance of the Force" which I think is the main theme of the ST.
(I saw this passage together with the images, but I don't own the book...Hm. Have to get it I think...)

The wait will be long...And with the pushed premiere date even longer than at first...
I do hope they answer the most important questions in VIII. It will simply drive me nuts not to have some of my burning questions not answered in VIII and having to wait even more until IX...

And as you say, if there is no redemption for Kylo, this will be the most depressing story ever - for Han and Leia, but also for Luke, who failed to help his nephew...But I think it is extremely unlikely that things will go in such a tragic way...

There is a line from one of the trailers that to think of it, never ended up in the movie. "Hope is not lost today. It is found." I think Maz says it and I chose to read it as there is hope for Kylo. All is not lost.

 

agree completely @FN-3263827

He needs to go one way or the other. like you.. i would much rather he went through a redemption arc, and sooner than later. If that isn't going to happen (which would be a tad upsetting actually) then they need to go HARD in the other direction with him. he would need to be assured, making his own decisions (i.e. no Snoke about anymore) and be downright evil. during TFA he was a broken mess in my opinion, yes he did a couple of bad things... but emotionally he was all over the shop.

TFA started with a semi-confident Kylo Ren. in my opinion it finished with Ben Solo in utter turmoil.

 

Me neither. I grew up with watching the OT and I have seen them many many times since childhood (and then I also saw the PT, which didn't manage to get me nowhere as excited as I'm now...But I never read any novelizations, etc. Just the films. And certainly nothing of the EU, which from what little I know frankly looks/sounds rather make it up as you go fanfiction...
But now, I'm totally hooked. I read the TFA novelization and the script. I'm going to even read the junior novelization, and I even started readingAftermath now (which is part of the new canon)...And I plan to read Bloodlines when it comes out...
I'm also hoping Rogue One will give a bit more somehow...Maybe Lor San Tekka?
Or just in general, I'm simply hyped for it as well, as it is a Star Wars movie...

Yes! Killing Han did not push him into the dark side and he instead felt weakened...And I'm sure he will continue to be torn apart and the pull to the light will continue, if not even intensify...

Exactly! It will tremendously disappoint me and really break my heart if they made me care and feel for this character and then make him into an one-dimensional irredeemable villain...I'm with you - I'm also not ok with that message too.
But I think that's not going to happen. I have faith

Exactly!

Yes, I need to see it start in VIII.

I was also somewhat worried about Adam Driver before seeing TFA... I watched some episodes of Girls after I knew he was cast...And although I was convinced he is a terrific and talented actor I wasn't sure how he will look as Kylo Ren or in the SW universe. But when I saw TFA, I was super impressed.
And he was practically chased for the role. No audition.
And his resemblance to Han/Harrison is absolutely there.
Great casting!
And what a tour de force performance by Driver! Brilliant.

 

While it may be a foregone conclusion, Rian also does intend to make it unique and "different" so it could go either way .

 

Boooo you should tell us .

 

I went into my first viewing (Dec. 18th) totally "spoiled" as I had read, as it turned out, a very accurate and super detailed spoiler of the plot of the whole movie early on and I knew precisely who Kylo is and where things are headed (Han's death etc)...
So I was super intrigued by the character from the very first scene.
But, still, even knowing the plot, which turned out to largely be very accurate, I did not expect to like the character and Adam's performance as much as I did.
It was a huge and very good surprise!
The totally unexpected switch came especially from the moment he took his mask off and the interrogation scene with Rey and then his 2nd maskless scene with Han. That, I didn't expect at all. The performance was incredible and all my reservations about Adam's casting were completely gone. And, then, o my, the final fight! For me that is the best one in all SW films so far.

And you are absolutely right. If miscast, that character (and even the movie) would have been a disaster...Thankfully, the casting is spot on and Adam's performance is incredible.
I'm really surprised with myself just how much I liked this character and how intrigued and impatient to know more I am. (And the reason I'm on these forums). That was completely unexpected for me.

[/QUOTE]we'll see! i have some theories about what Rian might do "differently", but i'm keeping them to myself for the moment ~ hahaha.[/QUOTE]

Ha ha. Do share later on when you decide you can!
I'm sure we won't be able to resist speculating and theorising...The wait will simply be too long...So, when you feel like sharing your theories, please do!

(To tell you frankly, I don't mind again knowing the whole plot of VIII in advance before seeing it...I just need to know ASAP...Can't wait...I need answers!)