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The Fate of Ben Solo

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by FN-3263827, Jan 29, 2016.

?

If redeemed, what will become of Ben Solo?

  1. He should sacrifice himself and die

    18 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. He should be exiled

    9 vote(s)
    12.0%
  3. He should quiety come home and retire to a life of atonement

    18 vote(s)
    24.0%
  4. He'll be given a hero's welcome: no one will know who he was anyway

    8 vote(s)
    10.7%
  5. He'll be given a hero's welcome: it's Disney; consequences don't matter so long the galaxy is saved

    5 vote(s)
    6.7%
  6. Can't answer because he can't be saved

    17 vote(s)
    22.7%
  1. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    well, he is supposed to be 29 in movie years...but definitely looks far younger actually...I think it is the vulnerability of Ben that make him seem even younger...But also, 29y is still young, no? :p
    I must also (a bit sheepishly) admit that my very 1st reaction to the unmasking was "Wait, what?! Why is he so handsome?!" (There is no blushing emoji...) I definitely did not expect that. I was genuinely surprised.

    I totally cried at my 2nd viewing. (At my 1st viewing I was too nervous if the film will suck or not. And after I was relieved to find out it was great and realising that it actually exceeded my expectations I was very relaxed the 2nd time and really got emotional at that scene...(as one should...)

    [/QUOTE]yeah, i definitely feel less spoiler averse than i did going into vii, but i'm really nervous too ~ hahaha.[/QUOTE]

    You know it's an interesting contradiction. I don't mind knowing (and will actively try to look for) the supposed plot before the movie is out, but I definitely don't want to hear it spoiled by people who have already actually seen the movie. It's a paradox.
    My initial intention was to see TFA a week after its release as I wanted to avoid the biggest crowds, etc. But then I realised, one way or another I will read something online someone spoiling something and also I really couldn't wait and I then totally changed my plan and was lucky to find a ticket for Dec. 18th basically the day before...
    Also the atmosphere in the theater was amazing. Next time I'm definitely going on the first day as well...:)
     
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  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i think i was so shocked at "young" that i didn't really register "handsome". because he definitely looks younger than even the 29 years he's supposed to be (and again, i didn't know Driver at all). but i think on another level and certainly after repeated viewings, it's very clear that the intention is to make him look not only young and sensitive, but also not remotely ugly.

    now i almost laugh at the scene because the deliberateness of the perfectly coiffed hair is kinda comical, really. especially knowing what Driver's hair looks like in its natural state ~ hahaha

    Poe won me over so early on in the film making fun of Ren's mask, i lost all my nerves before we even saw Rey for the first time. i seriously think my number one concern going in was that this Kylo Ren hack was just an awful Vader stand-in loser ~ but that opening scene showed me all the ways in which he wasn't. after that i unclenched my fists (literally ~ hahaha) and just enjoyed it straight through.

    yeah, i don't like reading reviews or knowing what other people think of something ahead of time in terms of judgment. i'd be okay seeing pictures or location videos or something i can draw my own conclusions from at this point. i don'tknow; i'm one foot in and one foot out still right now. dying to know, but still kinda wanna save it.

    i really did enjoy seeing TFA completely and utterly spoiler-free, trailer-free, etc. other than seeing the very first teaser and all the toys on Force Friday, i didn't know a thing bout the movie.
     
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  3. Epilay

    Epilay Clone Trooper

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    FN-3263827 wrote: i really did enjoy seeing TFA completely and utterly spoiler-free, trailer-free, etc. other than seeing the very first teaser and all the toys on Force Friday, i didn't know a thing bout the movie.

    Strong in the force you are. I caved quickly. I will try harder for the next film.
     
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  4. Karnstein

    Karnstein Rebel Trooper

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    Why is everybody so keen on calling him "Ben Solo"?
    If the naming conventions in the SW universe are similar to ours (most countires in the western world) shouldn't it be "Ben Organa" instead, given that Han in Leia never married in the new canon?
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    you're right ~ we are totally making assumptions.
    Han and Leia are married, but Leia kept her last name and the marriage may not have happened until after Ben was born.
    He could be Ben Organa, Ben Organa-Solo, or who knows what.

    Ben Solo probably just seems the obvious easiest choice.

    Han & Leia's wedding: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedding_of_Han_Solo_and_Leia_Organa
    also from the various novelizations:

    Screen Shot 2016-02-24 at 6.30.29 AM.png
     
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  6. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    The connections you're making with the "Torn Apart" track are really interesting. To me it sounds as though the melancholic melody is actually the Starkiller theme, which has a tragic overtone to it. As you say, the track seems to start out with that melody...and then immediately after Han is stabbed it starts up again.

    I'm not sure what to make of that. My ears may be deceiving me about the Starkiller theme, but if they aren't, then I think John Williams is giving us some insight into Kylo Ren's true inner thoughts about the potential and real deaths of his parents. If the tragedy Williams is telegraphing about the Starkiller weapon is not so much about its victims but about Kylo Ren...wow. What a window into his (tortured) soul.

    Again, if the tragedy of the Starkiller theme is about Kylo Ren, it may also work on another level. Perhaps the Starkiller base is a metaphor for Kylo Ren himself. Commandeered from his natural, good state, much like the planet, he is turned into a weapon for the First Order and sentenced to being used to kill good in the galaxy--i.e., his family. And, while we're on the subject of redemption, let's not forget the powerful symbolism of the Starkiller base turning into a star at the end of TFA!
     
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  7. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    Thank you for the comment!
    I hadn't noticed the similarities of the Torn Apart and the Starkiller music! That's a very good catch! Although (with my untrained ear) I think although similar the two pieces of music are still different...But it is notable that the sadness/melancholy in the two is very very similar. Also the Starkiller music begins when the weapon is fired and we see Kylo looking at the beam from the Finalizer.

    My interpretation of this moment (Kylo not joining Hux's nazi-rally and watching the firing of the weapon from the Finalizer) has been that it is as a juxtaposition and a deliberate setting apart of Kylo and Hux, and I interpret it as hinting at Kylo's disagreement with using the weapon. He wears a mask so it is really hard to know what his real emotions are of course, but now that you point out about the Starkiller's music what I notice is that it starts playing when the weapon is fired and the first person shown which we see is Kylo watching from the Finalizer. It is indeed notable that this piece of music is very melancholy and the feeling we get is of tragedy and sadness and that Kylo is shown looking on in silence I think is a proof of this (that Kylo is against the use of the weapon)...We know (from the novelization and the script) that he is against the second use, but my feeling is that he would be against the 1st use also...
    Interestingly, in the Art of...a figure that looks like Kylo can be made out at the rally, but in the film we see Phasma who is present while Kylo Ren is not. (We know that the earlier concept about Kylo as a character was rather different and it evolved/changed...)

    Also very notably the scene with Kylo looking at the beam of the fired weapon from the Finalizer is completely absent from the novelization! There is no mention of where he is at that moment at all! So the choice they made in the movie is very intriguing.

    The script says the following about the moment the Starkiller weapon is fired:
    And notably as Kylo watches the beam the melancholy music of the Starkiller track plays.

    here is the early concept art with a caped figure that could be an earlier idea about Kylo:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    The scene as in the movie.

    To return to Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. We know that the destruction of Alderaan caused a significant disturbance in the Force, which force sensitives could feel. Example is Obi-Wan's reaction in ANH. It is logical to imagine that to someone like Ben Solo/Kylo Ren the destruction of more than one planet (as in the case of the firing of Starkiller) must have a very similar impact too...

    So really great catch on the Starkiller piece as melancholy and sad emotion!
    I think it makes me even more confident in my feelings about Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's being torn apart...Another thing worth noticing is that Kylo seems concentrated, in deep thought, contemplating watching the firebeam, while other people nearby are hardly even looking at the beam! He is visually shown as set apart, alone...(both as not being at the rally and as watching in silence alone)

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Lol I don't know where I read that, but I recall reading that George Lucas once contemplated to film the wedding at the Ewok village lol but it was not done at the end. Based on what happens on the Shattered Empire comics, they did not mention anything but maybe when Leia came back from Naboo they got married.
     
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  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i absolutely believe, as you point out, that he's been weaponized and that much of it has been beyond his control. every time i watch that scene during the Starkiller theme, i wonder what he's thinking, whether he's bracing himself for what he's certainly about to feel, and how he's gone to watch as far away from the others as he can get.

    and yet, interestingly, he's not "hiding" per se. perhaps his willingness to stand on the bridge and watch is the one moment of fortitude that he has in the film: he's complicit in this act and he accepts that ~ so he doesn't turn from it even though he probably disagrees with it.

    in the novel, even Hux doesn't think outright destroying the whole system is necessary. it's Snoke that says to blow it all up.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2016 ---
    i hope we maybe get a few details about this in Bloodline. it would just be nice to know and it doesn't have to interfere with any major movie plot points.
     
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  10. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    FN-3263827, these are my thoughts exactly! :)

    Somewhere along the way, in my seven viewings, I found myself caring very, very deeply about Leia. She placed third when it came to how I rated the OT characters (Han was always #1), but now that I have seen her story through adult eyes in TFA...she is the character I identify with most. When I consider all she has gone through and all she has lost, but worse yet, what she is facing in watching her son go down this Dark Side path, I feel she cannot lose anything else. Seriously. I'm not permitting it. Just no. Her baby boy Ben is coming back to the Light. It's just going to take awhile. ;)

    So I guess it's pretty obvious I'm riding the Kylo Ren Must Be Redeemed train! :p
     
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  11. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    cool concept art! thanks for sharing that! and it's interesting how the character really does seem to have changed a lot throughout development. i think what they ended up with is pretty amazing. hopefully they don't ruin him in the next movie ~ hahaha.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2016 ---
    all aboard! hahaha

    i completely agree. i want Ben redeemed for his own sake, but also hugely for Leia, who doesn't deserve to suffer any more, and even for Luke, who needs to fix this critical mistake.

    i really hope we get to see a mother-son reunion to end all mother-son reunions. i want this ST to end with Leia at peace and happy.
     
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  12. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    Welcome! We are #TeamBenSoloShouldMustBeRedeemed here ;) I will be super surprised (and extremely disappointed) if this is not what will happen.
    He must be redeemed for his own sake, but also (importantly) for Han and Leia's sake...
    I agree with you completely, Leia simply cannot lose anymore people she loves...

    The reunion between Leia and Ben is something that I am very much looking forward to as well...
     
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  13. PrincessLeiaCB3

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    @Choose Light welcome to the team! At first I hated Kylo Ren for what he did and wanted him finished. But now I want him to go back home. Leia has suffered enough.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 2, 2016 ---
    I know, right? She was almost killed by the Empire when she, Poe's mom and the Queen of Naboo went defending the planet from the post-humous Operation Cinder lol. (That's when you see she got her piloting skills too like daddy Anakin - a pity Ben didn't choose to be a pilot - but I still do hope seeing him flying!)
     
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  14. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Thank you for the kind welcome! It's nice to "meet" my fellow passengers on this redemption train! I am truly hoping we can trust the people up there in the engine...I'm looking at you, Rian Johnson, Colin Treverrow, and the other writers and producers... ;)
     
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  15. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Well, my ears are untrained too, so who knows about the Starkiller theme being repeated? After all, Obi-Wan did say, "Your ears can deceive you--don't trust them!" Or, you know, something like that... ;)

    In any case, there are certainly two different moods in the "Torn Apart" piece which so nicely illustrate the two opposite pulls that are tearing Kylo apart. I really like the idea that the melancholic/tragic one might be a theme for Ben Solo, or the good part of him!

    I agree with your analysis of Kylo's separation from the Starkiller rally as a silent protest, or at the very least a distancing of himself, and how the scene might have evolved. I love, love that shot of him on the Finalizer, watching the beams go by...you're right, the sense of his aloneness is very intense. (For crying out loud, no wonder the guy talks to Grandpa's helmet in his spare time! I bet Snoke kept peeking into Kylo's Very Secret Diary, so he had to abandon it. ;) ) I had thought about whether he dreaded the Force-impact of all those people dying...but I don't know. He didn't seem fazed when all those people in the Jakku village were killed. Granted, that was probably 50 people compared to billions, but I think Kylo is probably more hardened to death. (Which makes me want to cry, but that's a topic for another post. :p)
     
    #75 Choose Light, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    since you bring up Jakku, i admit that one is hard to rationalize (and i rationalize everything for this poor sod ~ hahaha). the village did fire on them. not that it makes it the least bit okay, but i can see it being an act of war.

    originally i thought he walked away from it, but he doesn't--he watches the people being mowed down. his behavior in the first scene overall does feel a lot more hardened. in fact, after repeated viewings, Ren only seems to start unraveling after Snoke tells him that his father has BB-8.

    i can't help feeling that he had been able to fix his mindset on the task at hand up until he realized it was going to come to an inevitable confrontation with Dad.
     
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  17. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Oh yes, the boy did fall apart after he heard about Dad, didn't he?

    If anyone has seen the feature on the VFXing of Kylo's helmet (it was on the Internet for a while, then mysteriously disappeared so I can't link to it)...the scene in which Snoke reveals this fact to the helmetless Kylo is very telling. It looks like his chin is on the verge of trembling like a five-year-old. (Way to stab me in the heart, JJ!) (No, that was not a pun. :eek:)
     
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  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    there are still gifs of it floating around. i fergit where the video was originally posted. it was "official" so i don't think there was any reason to remove it.

    Screen Shot 2016-03-02 at 10.46.06 AM.png

    what's interesting to me about this cgi-overed scene is that i think it still telegraphs in the film. i remember watching it the first time when he says "he means nothing to me" and me thinking: oh jeez, what a lousy liar you are, Kylo Ren!

    without the helmet it's even more obvious (almost too obvious). and yeah, pretty much after that he always seems coiled on the edge of a meltdown.
     
  19. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    Yep. This one
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    after being digitalized in the movie:
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: @FN-3263827 I see you beat me to it posting the gifs! :)
    Watching the movie, you can totally sense in his voice that what he says doesn't match what he feels!
    What is also interesting to me, is that they filmed this part without the mask and then added the helmet (which is rather costly)...My theory is that they decided to keep the reveal of his face for later (when he unmasks for Rey and later Han...The impact is much stronger. I'm glad they did that, it's a good decision!)
     
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  20. FN-3263827

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    i swear it bothers me to no end. there's something so disturbingly glazed over about his eyes.
    it's a look of "i feel something horrible but i have to pretend i'm not feeling it; and even though i have to do this all the time as a matter of survival, i'll never get accustomed to it."
     
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