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The First ORDER...crazy theory?!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by ITG, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    It's been a while since I launched a crazy theory. So here we go.


    First of all, the BTS footage was phenomenal! My excitement levels are through the roof!

    Now let's get to it...


    Ok, Snoke's ship is a huge version of the Empire Star Destroyers. Why so similar to what we've already seen before? It's identical. It's too coincidental.

    Now think....

    The First ORDER. Kylo's random reference to a "clone army" in TFA. Snoke's wealth.

    I put it to you that the FIRST ORDER is a reference to a deal Plagueis (stay with me!) made before the "Army of the Republic" was created. Plagueis' First ORDER was kept secret while he retreated to the Unknown regions after his "death" at the hands of his apprentice. Plagueis, who at this point, has abandoned the Sith and his Darth title, is waiting to strike after the Empire vs Republic war, the fall of the Sith and end of the Jedi. Only Luke survived. The last Jedi.

    Plagueis sat back and watched all this unfold. He knows exactly what transpired. Intimate details. The TFA novel expands on this.

    As he knows that Luke is impossible to turn -after the events of ROTJ - he focuses his attention on Ben Solo. He's the only one who can help destroy the Skywalker's.

    The First Order salvage what they can from the remnants of the Empire and launch their bid for galactic domination. This is why it took so long for Plagueis to return. He's still healing but his army and his apprentice are now ready.

    Plagueis confirmed. Sorry Pablo.
     
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  2. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    You want to go home and rethink your life.(obi-wan 2)
     
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  3. DarthFuller22

    DarthFuller22 Rebel Trooper

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    I respect the imagination! My only argument against it, is what would you say Palpatine's role is then? I ask this, because in the Aftermath novels, it is very obvious that Palps has some sort of "contingency" plan set up involving the outer reaches. So do you think he knew what Plagueis was doing out there, or could sense him? I have a feeling that our boy Palps is going to be a lot more involved in this Snoke situation than we thought, even it is just that he "signaled" for this unknown, very force sensitive creature we are calling Snoke.
     
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  4. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Maybe he knew Plagueis was up to something suspicious in the unknown regions, but never found out exactly what his old master was planning. To be honest, I don't know. I've had 6 painkillers today...and a beer. About to pop another.
     
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  5. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    this theory is less crazy and more Plagueis-y :confused:

    watch out man, mixing barbiturates and alcohol is risky business!
     
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  6. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    While this theory is unlikely I find even this more desirable to be true than "Snoke the Palpatine's Librarian" theories because any Plagueis = Snoke version grants a powerfull Snoke simply because Plagueis appears to be the most powerfull Darksider that ever lived (dead or alive).

    If he still lives, he is bad , he is mad, he is powerfull and wise over the charts, and galaxy is in Big Dudu.....
     
    #6 McDiarmid, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  7. semiote

    semiote Rebel General

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    You said the First Order is a deal, but who did he make the deal with, and what did they receive in return? Why does he retreat to the Unknown Regions in the first place? I think maybe your explanation is incomplete...
     
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  8. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Money?Capitalists always have interest in arming and rearming.Snoke obviously has links with large Galactic capital and polithicians.It is said that main arms suppliers for the Republic have formed"sister companies"which operate in the unknown regions and supply arms for the First Order, bypassing law that forbids selling arms to the FO.
    Plagueis had links with banking clans and large capital,at least in now decanonized material.
     
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  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Plagueis is sooooooo amazing his aprentice killed him and then he hid for 60. He renounces the Sith you because loop hole problems. 30 years after the aprentice died he finally manages to come out.

    The idea that people have learned unique powers through the force doesn't necessarily make them more powerful. Kylo is the first FS we see hitting people with paralysis, and freezing blaster bolts.

    He has different powers because he deficated the time to learn. DP learned to keep others alive. Great power. Is that more powerful than reading minds? More powerful than surpressing the force abilities of thousands of Jedi so they have diminished prediction ability.

    DP is off the table anyway.

    Snoke is very possibly a real threat. But the idea that he is so unbelievably powerful is only an assumption. If he is soooo ridiculously powerful he needs no apprentice, no 1st Order, no SKB.

    You can strawman argue Snoke "the librarian" all you want but your DESIRE and SPECULATION aren't evidence.
     
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  10. DarthFuller22

    DarthFuller22 Rebel Trooper

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    My other thing with the whole Plagueis being Snoke thing, is what that does to Palpatine. It has been our belief this whole time that Palpatine is basically the strongest dark side user we have seen. He manipulated an entire galaxy to his will, and clouded the entire Jedi Order to his existence. But, if you then tell us that Plagueis has actually just been chillin and watching everything go down, then I feel like that undermines everything that Palpatine has done, and makes him look lesser of a dark side user.

    @Pastor Barndog makes a good point in saying that it is simply an assumption that Snoke is unbelievably powerful. I just feel like from a franchise standpoint, Star Wars needs to almost one-up the previous villain, which is not going to be easy.

    So basically I'm conflicted and no matter what they do, I know Kathleen Kennedy will make sure it's done right.
     
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  11. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Put a gun to my head and I think that Snoke is a powerful darksider. More sorcerer than sabre twirling. He is like different but similar in threat to past villains. IF he is the true BBEG. Kylo already by the start of TFA is the one responsible for destruction of all the happy endings for the OT heroes and the one who took out Han whom both ST leads had developed strong ties. I don't think its impossible that we will see Snoke killed and displaced by his student.

    Power is just spectacle. Villians are about the emotion they bring to the story.

    Joker in the Dark Knight couldn't take Bats in a straight fight. But he was a much better villain than Doomsday in BvS.

    Good stories are compelling because they risk and frustrate the heroes.
     
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  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    But Plagueis provides the perfect solution to this problem.
    He is "one up" on Palpatine in that he "cheated death" and has a different connection to the Skywalker family but at the same time, Palpatine legitimately "defeated him" and was the only one able to take over the galaxy the way the Sith did in the PT.

    Plagueis is a different villain, more powerful in some ways, for this new trilogy - whilst maintaining a strong and direct connection to the Skywalker family.
    A newbie Snoke simply makes Palpatine be the lesser villain and is shoe horned into the saga.

    Having said that, @ITG's latest theory is as clumsy at it is stupid. :p
     
  13. DarthFuller22

    DarthFuller22 Rebel Trooper

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    You make really good points! I guess perosnally, I have just always been against the Plageuis is Snoke thing. I don't really have any reasons, but ever sine that theory came out I have been skeptical of it. But, as I said before, I will support whatever Kathleen Kennedy and the rest of the folks over there at Lucasfilms decide to do, because I think they have done a great job so far!
     
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Not sure about Plagueis, but how have I never considered that THE FIRST ORDER could be Order 1 from the series that contained Order 66? It seems so obvious, and I'm sure many fans have already made that connection. I feel like an idiot. :p
     
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  15. Qui Gons Gin

    Qui Gons Gin Force Sensitive

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    I'm OK with Snoke being Plagueis and personally I love the crazy theory. I wouldn't be mad at all if this is how his arc went. They could make it work with some wiggle here and a jiggle there. I also like the idea of a thread of an underlying story element that has been present albeit in the back ground throughout the whole series, popping up to pull everything together in a neat package. If these last three are suppose to wrap you the three trilogy saga, why not use Plagueis as the vehicle to achieve that? He has been in the shadows the entire time anyway (providing he really did survive the Palp beating)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 20, 2017 ---
    Dont feel like an id10t! I didn't make that connection till now myself when I read your post!
     
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  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    To be fair, manipulating people isn't a power...anyone can do it if they know what to say
     
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  17. DarthFuller22

    DarthFuller22 Rebel Trooper

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    Truth. I mean look at our current Sith Emper... I mean president
     
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  18. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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  19. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    Bahahaha.... think that sums up the Snoke=Plaguies in one word! lol

    I honestly Snoke has to be all that powerful himself to cause too much turmoil in these times. In 30 years, the Republic still isn't together. Didn't even think the FO was a threat. Had a spllinter cell (the resistance) to break off to combat the threat of the FO. The FO has been in disarray hiding in the unkown regions. The Last Jedi has even had a tough time and has been absent from the scene for a while. Wouldn't take much power to rise and lead the FO. Messa things Snoke could just as easily be the offspring of Jar Jar Binks. Its a crazy galaxy. lol
     
  20. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    TRUM---#DARTHPLAGEUISCONFIRMED
     
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