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The First ORDER...crazy theory?!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by ITG, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    Plaguies found a way to use his force power to have his consciousness and power survive his bodies death and then used his power to reanimate his dead broken body. At this time his goal was to be immortal not rule the Galaxy. He left that up to his former apprentice who had killed him. He no longer had power enough to act as a Sith. Only enough power to stay in life and animate his body. He wanted a new body. Perhaps the body of the chosen one or maybe one of chosen ones descendants.
     
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  2. Qui Gons Gin

    Qui Gons Gin Force Sensitive

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    Excellent theory! That would make sense. Star Wars has always shown that though telekinesis and mind control are able to be done by the strongest Jedi on a whim, but anything more was merely hinted at though vague stories and legends. So if Plagueis did survive the whoopin he got from Palps, I could see it taking all of his power in the force just to stay alive undead for the next 30 years.

    I also never considered him looking for a host body. Could that be Kylo if true? It would make the most sense, but then we are trekking down a path of something Star Wars has yet to explore, to my knowledge.
     
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  3. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Steady on. He was murdered in his sleep by the cowardly Sheev! Nobody gives DP a whoopin!
     
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  4. Qui Gons Gin

    Qui Gons Gin Force Sensitive

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    Im just on old country boy. In my redneck of the woods, a whoopin means you got your arse beat in a fight with someone. (duel)


    :D
     
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  5. DarthFuller22

    DarthFuller22 Rebel Trooper

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    I have also thought of this theory. For me, it would be the only way to make DP part of it and make sense. But on the other hand, I'm not sure if Star Wars has the kahonas to try and explain all of that to the common fan... they gotta make a story that can be easily explained to the non-hardcore fans, as well as please us nerds :)
     
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  6. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Palpatine said Plagueis became so powerfull that only thing he was afraid was loosing his power.
    Its a definition of nearly ultimate power, credited by a Sith that was himself one of the mightiest Force users that ever lived-Plapatine.
    And its a Canon.

    I find your negliegence of obvious facts , which are said in the film,and of which forumite of your caliber is certainly aware ( so its deliberate misguiding of others) as outrageous ,so you get disagree from me as I always elaborate my negative rating.

    DP is off the label, probabaly yes( on Disney's loss and loss of all of us) but he was canonized as probabaly most powerfull Sith that ever lived, until someone officialy deletes 2 central scenes in episode III, and decanonizes Tarkin novel.
     
    #26 McDiarmid, Jul 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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  7. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    Fun thought. Totally not true. Fun thought though.
     
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  8. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    No the first sentence, your paraphrase of Palpatine is canon.

    The second sentence is your own interpretation of what you think Palpatine meant. He never said that DP was the single greatest most powerful Sith ever. He did not suggest DP had god like powers. He said DP was strong with the darkside that he could keep others from dying. Its a unique power and it is powerful. But the same tale has the apprentice killing him in his sleep so his power does not extend awareness despite his wisdom.


    By all means give me whatever negative ratings you see fit. I gave you a trolling rating because your ridiculous personal attack that I am lying because I disagree with you might go beyond just a logical fallicy.

    If you want to address the issue without accusing me of dishonesty you're going to have either recognize that our differences in langauage leaded us to differences of perspective. I don't mean that as a slight just remembering you said English is not your first language. The other option is that there is ambiguity in the words of the source and we disagree on their exact implication.

    No Disney is right on DP was a great character but to build him up diminishes and takes away from Anakin and the ST centers on his impact and legacy. Hence Kylo seeks to finish what Vader started. And Rey is tasked with perserving the balance he secured. Anakin already connects the trilogies. Again those scenes never declare him the most powerful who ever lived. I am not saying DP is a wuss. I am saying the story doesn't say he is the most powerful ever. His speciality is significant and unique and possibly exaggerated by Palpatine even though Palpatine does not say that DP was the most powerful ever.
     
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  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Apologetics can not change the fact that you throw provocatively wrongfull (neglecting)statements about Plagueis power in that post ,which contradicts every single word said in the film and in Tarkin novel about traits of this Sith Lord,which are extraorinary in every element by all criteria.You may found to be curageous to be downstream throwing inverted claims about Plagueis power just because he is decided not to be Snoke.No any decision of LSL story Department can change fact Darth Plagueis the Wise is canonized as one of the most powerfull and most influential Force weilders of all time,possibly even greatest.It is arbitrary decision Snoke is someone else,and by my open and publicly declared decision(after analysing in depth over a 2 years myself created alternative non-Plagueis Snoke's -as an experiment ) that Plagueis exclusion is a major miss that will be debated long after this trilogy ends,as an alement that prevented delivery of the full potential of the trilogy and even derailed entire Star Wars into a sandbox extravaganza.
     
    #29 McDiarmid, Jul 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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  10. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    The Star Wars Databank doesn't even have a Darth Plagueis entry.

    http://www.starwars.com/databank

    Here is the Wookipedia listing.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

    It only repeats Palatine's words as it pertains to power. "He became so powerful that the only thing he feared was losing power."

    You can accuse me of lying AGAIN all you want. Truly classy of you. But anyone who can read our exchange can see I simply disagree with the level of power you think DP was able to attain. I think he was a significantly powerful Sith Lord. I think that Canon and wookipedia suggests he was surpassed by Palpatine by warrant of the fact he was defeated and it was Palatine who achieved the long time goal of the Sith. Which I think at least suggests he may not have been the single most powerful ever.
     
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  11. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Star Wars ,episode.III.(George Lucas).
    A.Opera scene:
    Darth Plagueis was a Sith Lord,so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to create-Life.He was able to prevent others from dying.He BECAME so powerful that only thing he was afraid of was losing his power.
    B.Anakin becames Vader scene:
    He was the only one who has acheived to cheat death.

    Tarkin Novel(James Luceno)..
    Darth Plagueis was master of Palpatine.Plagueis developed belief that nature of the Force is such that it could strike back on him(for his acquired power).Palpatine praised his wisdom and gives to Plagueis a credit of been great mind and strategian and even asked himself how would Plagueis run the Empire in his place.

    Traits of Plagueis mentioned can be checked any time by anyone by turning Star Wars DVD,ep.III,and by opening Tarkin book(page 113.).

    This meets hard (absolute) criteria of been Star Wars canon whatever anyone wanted or desired for any purpose or reason .
     
    #31 McDiarmid, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  12. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    So great you found quotes that say he was powerful. None of those say he is the ultimate power. None of them say he is the most powerful Sith ever. None say he is the greatest of all time.

    I have said at nearly every turn that I agree he is powerful but his power is not unlimited god like power.
     
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  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I do not know on which level people watch or percieve movies.,but I was stunned with Theater scene in 2004.the very first time I sough Revenge of the Sith,as well as with the ultimate quest of cheating death ,which only Plagueis has acheived,established in the central moment of Star Wars,when Anakin became Vader in front of its Master.

    From than on I am literally intelectually thirsty to see Plagueis developed, shown,used. Plagueis's listed extraordinary traits are making even term Death into something not absolute and ireversible ,while his power to create Life literally presents godlike ability. Until that moment,from the time of Yoda's teachings on Dagobah only the Force was creator of Life for us fans..and than Palpatine said it...
    Not using such Plagueis as a character for continuation of Star Wars(if true) is a major misjudgment by opinion of many,mine to, leaving most precious unseen connecting jewell and dumping it into oblivion..Perhaps simply they didn't had curriage to dwell so deeply into such powerfull story.
    It is sad,ironic,that after manifesting ignorance,or lack of curriage to develop Plagueis,those same creators of new trilogy suspiciously acquiesce with dumping of Plagueis as an almost inexistant obscurity-which resulted in parroting of Plagueis insignifice amongst commoners. Someone out there clearly see Canonized statements about Plagueis as a burdeon,and possibly a challenge to their Snoke.Certainly their Snoke will fail to reach Plagueis potential,guaratantee that ,and in time it will be aknowledged.
     
    #33 McDiarmid, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Assuming that the "tragedy" Palestine tells Anakin is still true in canon, we can at least say homeboy managed to do something with the force almost no one (or perhaps no one ever) had managed before him. Doesn't necessarily mean he was the most powerful force user ever, but it's gotta count for something.
     
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  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Please recall Yoda,Dagobah:".The Force creates Life"
    Please recall also this scene Luke:"Master Yoda you can die"..upon which dying Yoda whispers:"Strong am I with the Force...,but not that strong."
    Now,please recalculate what is the level of power of Plagueis.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Yeah, totally, it was an impressive feat. I'm just saying, we know so little about him otherwise. Dude totally deserves legendary status among the sith and Jedi alike, for sure.
     
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  17. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Great points. I love that you have a deep connection to DP. The theatre scene in ROTS was great. I wanted to know more about him too. I imagined at the time he was far more ancient than he was later revealed. The scene never said he was Palpatine's master directly. I always assumed Palpatine's smug smile when he spoke of the apprentice killing DP was a reminder of him killing his own master. Later it was revealed different which is cool too.

    Cheating death is a great power. Creating life is a great power. Ironically the same seen that spoke of DP's power of cheating death does not suggest that he was in the end able to save himself. So he and Yoda are in the same boat at least as far as remaining alive. His "cheating death" was him keeping others alive. Which I don't want to take away from him it is a significant power. I don't see where immortality was mentioned as the ultimate prize nor even where it was said he was immortal after all he was killed by his apprentice.

    My point however his power at least in the story one shows limits and vulnerabilities. Nor does it say his powers in other areas were all as robust and awe inspiring as his key achievement. Meaning his power may have centered around his study of creating life but perhaps he was not the best at foreseeing the future. After all he failed to account for his apprentice killing him. And even if he was able to recover. We don't know the nature of his return. Is he a zombie, a vampire, a billowing pile of ashes that is able to get up out of his urn that was said to be in Palpatine's office. Was he a better light sabre fighter than Palpatine (who despite his own immense power lost in a fight with Mace)? Could he shoot more lightening? Did he learn the same Sith sorcery secrets that Palpatine learned from the Night Sisters?

    It never says that his power was across the board it says he was so powerful with the dark side he could influence mitcloreans to create life. That is great power, I am not knocking the guy. I am suggesting that there is room for other Sith possibly to have been more powerful in other ways.

    Well it appears at this point that DP is still dead because despite his power he could not save himself. Yoda in death however went on to become as Obi-Wan pointed out to Darth Vader more powerful than you can imagine.
     
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  18. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Fine post with objective reasoning.
    About Plagueis death,I elaborated once that in the ep. III scene when Darth Sidious initiates Anakin into Vader, and mentions there is only one who cheated death,there was brief moment of uncertainty in Palpatine visible.This uncertainty was elaborated later in now de-canonized book Plagueis,in which after killing Plagueis ,Palpatine felt "strange presence".Now,this is not Canon anymore and indeed not worth of dwelling into .

    However what personally amazes me is the fact that some people in the canon dpt.followed by parroting of others didn't made a blink of an eye when Darth Maul (who was acrobatic fighter)has been brought into life after been cut in half in the middle of the film ,have a gut to state resolutely that Plagueis death (DP spent his life searching how to cheat death with obvious results) ,now his death is rock solid fact because its said so in the film.
    Such provocative ,cheap and from my point of view mind insulting inconsistencies .
     
    #38 McDiarmid, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  19. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    I'll just leave this here. An image found on starwars.com.

    Look at Plagueis. Blank.

    #mysnoketheorydoesntsuck


    IMG_5847.JPG
     
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  20. semiote

    semiote Rebel General

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    It's useless trying to reason with this guy. He is simply immune to reason, and sees all disagreement as a personal attack and/or an intentional attempt at deception.
     
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