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The First ORDER...crazy theory?!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by ITG, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Great find that depicts inevitable central place of Darth Plagueis the Wise in Star Wars lore, and confirms everything I told in here..Plagueis is the highest level canonized ,however mysterious,
    Force weilder in Star Wars.
    And some warned you for mixing alcochol and barbitutates,and to rethink your life.How rude.
     
    #41 McDiarmid, Jul 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  2. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    I really think it is sad when people trash LFL saying they are ignorant just because they don't use a character that some wanted to see. Even when the creator Lucas himself didn't have DP in his treatments. He is an interesting character, was used in a great scene to help in the temptation of Anakin, and had is on novel to expand upon him but sadly was decanonized.

    Neither was Plaguies it seems.

    Until he is brought back into cannon like Maul was, then he is still dead. Any debate otherwise is pure speculation and anyone's speculation isn't the correct speculation just because they want it to be.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 23, 2017 ---
    This diagram only shows cannonized master/apprentice relationships, not power levels. DP obviously had a master and if it was cannonized would be above him. Darth Bane is cannon, but the master apprentice relationships down from him are not and therfore is not reflected on this chart. The main take away here is the DP face is left off because his species hasn't been cannonized since the novel was taken off the cannon list.
     
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  3. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I feel now really strange.I apologize if my brain is damaged but reading back this thread I feel real difficulty to comprehend why some people can not accept fact that Plagueis is canonized,however mysterious,ultimately powerfull base of the Sith in Star Wars.He is result or represents end of Sith evolution from Darth Bane over a 1000 years .That evolution was designed evolution to create more and more powerfull Sith.So even from this perspective Plagueis was logically immensly powerfull.I realy am impressed with anyone who persists on questioning Plagueis ultimate power after all that has been said . Chart presented by ITG should make rethink his life anyone who is conscious in making Sequel trilogy in case they replaced Plagueis with Snoke who pop(poops)up from nowhere in this long evolved chart,and I am sorry for sad state of mind they were into when decided about continuation of evil side in Sequel trilogy.Though latest reports from underground channels seems to point someone high in Disney hierarchy who is not biased and touched by vanity ,heard about name Darth Plagueis the Wise.
     
    #43 McDiarmid, Jul 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  4. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    No one is denying DP is canon. Literally no one.

    They are suggesting that the level of his power does not NECESSARILY warrant the superlatives you insist on using.
     
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  5. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Also, Canon Plagueis may be a different person from the Legends Plagueis.
     
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  6. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    We have only superlatives as a references for Plagueis abilities,except one that he became so powerfull that he feared devine influence(only thing that could do it) could make him lose his power,which is genuine superlative of the highest order.
     
    #46 McDiarmid, Jul 23, 2017
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  7. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    No one has issues with the words of canon its the words the actual words you are using which mean more than what is said in Canon.

    "So powerful that the only thing he feared was losing his power" does not equal "ultimate power."

    The superlative "ultimate" is added by you alone. Not from canon. That is why I am cautious about calling it fact.
     
  8. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    [​IMG]
    Yes hubris is defintly part of the story just beacause the master manipulator says something doesn't make it right. Unreliable witness.
    [​IMG]
    didn't work out that well..
    [​IMG]

    And this is the end of the mightiest Sith we have seen, claimed power and kept it for decades, billions died and his idea of ruling the galxy isn't dead even decades later. He and Snoke have left more scars on the face of the gffa then Plagi ever could. Actually not many know he existed, all dead by now.
    But he could be a good recurring villain of a saturday morning cartoon, live-die-repeat every week. If he had only the power to safe himself, but obviously he couldn't.
     
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  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    But we had morning recurring Cartoon surviver from certain defined death ,Maul.Cut in half ,fell 1 km.. Maul was however acrobatic fighter good for action,problem with Plagueis is he is more intellectual ,he just spent his life in experimenting about creating life and cheating death(thats why he obviously couldn't survived).
    Chaos and sorrow.
     
    #49 McDiarmid, Jul 23, 2017
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  10. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    Just because that happens once or twice doesn't mean we throw out all the severe consequences of being a villain (and dead). Marvel screwed up the death meaning in the story to a point where it is completely irrelevant and doesn't shock at all, no way Star Wars will do the same.
    I wasn't fan of him surviving this, although they made him a compelling character in the end, but I still think he should have remained dead and not just revived for toy sales.
     
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  11. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Maul opened Pandora's box.Or should we call it sand box.Unfortunately ghost left the lamp and there are no rules.So its inevitable for instance when Pablo Hidalgo dumps Plagueis theory argumenting that DP death is a rock solid fact,people who like idea behind Plagueis feel lack of justice,and cynic irony.
     
    #51 McDiarmid, Jul 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  12. Rieekan

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    This is your interpretation, but the truth is that the overwhelming majority of dead people in Star Wars remain dead.
    You seem to take this very personally, he doesn't do it to bother you. He just goes by the guidelines of Lucas, who didn't even go there in Clone Wars.
     
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  13. Pastor Barndog

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    Maul was interesting but in TCW he says hate kept him alive. Now that is likely hate fuelled darkside power and grim determination kept him going. How he in his maddened state left Naboo for a junk yard where he could make a spider legged suit that for me is the bigger question. Also the spider legs were awesome why on Earth did they change it to boring old regular legs.
     
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  14. Fearghas_Ajax

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    As @Pastor Barndog said, nobody is denying DP is cannon. But past what is directly stated in the movies or one cannon novel, it is all speculation and personal opinion. Not everyone agrees DP is the ultimate baddie and that is ok. Everyone can have their opinion, and everyone doesn't have to agree with it. You are right, Darth Bane designed it so each Sith would be stronger and stronger. Finally one was strong enough to take over the galaxy. This was Palpatine and Vader, not DP. The line of Sith ended with the chosen one destroying the sith. DP was killed by his master before. He almost made it the the top but not quite. That doesn't mean he wasn't great and powerful but someone took him out. Once again, you call those at LFL in a sad state of mind just because they aren't changing what was stated in ROTS because it is what some want even when Lucas himself didn't have DP in his treatments. Its your opinion and that is great but not everyone has to share that same opinion.

    Once again, just because they brought a fan favorite back in a cartoon doesn't mean they will or have to do that with DP. It is their choice, not ours. Just because they don't, doesn't make the sad.... just makes some fans sad. Who knows he may get his own cartoon one day.
     
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  15. CaptainPhastastic

    CaptainPhastastic Rebel Official

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    There has to be a reason his face is blank. There are only 4 options:

    1.) There is going to be a big reveal on which existing or former character is Plagueis, up to and including Snoke.
    2.) They haven't determined his species yet (doubtful, to with this story group; they wouldn't be that indecisive).
    3.) His appearance is being kept secret because he will appear in a future stand alone or trilogy film (either prequel or sequel).
    4.) Purposeful misdirection.

    There can't be another reason other than one of these or a combo of these. I doubt at this point they'd be cynical enough to attempt purposeful misdirection. Personally, I think it's #3. I think Snoke is still just Snoke, but they've seen the interest and possibility of a Plagueis story, and he's being reserved for a future story's reveal. It's still admittedly very curious they'd withhold the image. They're up to something.
     
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  16. McDiarmid

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    Absolutely correct Fearghas_Ajax

    However it that case for instance if I was official like Pablo Hidalgo I would not make selfies with "your Snoke theory sucks" and twitt DP death is rock solid fact like it is logic and like a film is absolute criteria and like we are idiots who can not understand, but be fair and say what you just correctly concluded. DP is decided to stay dead beacuse it is arbitrary decision of canon department and/or filmmaker to be so, and not because stupid peristent people brought out stupid theory- and debate over, taking responcibility.

    Just consistency and righteousness, and responcibility. Almost half century old SW fandom deserves at least that from bobs who make good portion of their very good living from that same fandom.

    What is democratic right however is when I say ( because I am nowone and nobody considering Star Wars, still a citizen and a fan): --their Snoke will suck if he is not Plagueis,on a long run without a doubt with serrious consequences , not direct monetary consequences for Disney/LSL but by consequences on position that entire Star Wars franchise holds as a legacy of human culture.

    Plagueis Theory is the longest standing, loudest and most clearly elaborated decision reference presented to a filmmaker ever in history of the film industry .It will have its own consequences.

    Someone reading this last line could think what is this?, but I know what am I saying.
     
    #56 McDiarmid, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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  17. Rieekan

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    Whatever you are reeding into this, but that sticker came from a fan site and he can do whatever he wants.
    Again you are projecting and take it too personally. It isn't aimed at you and let#s not forget how DP fans attacked him and insulted him without any reason just to get their theory working. If he is taking Lucas seriously fine, if the story goes into another direction also fine but if he is asked about the status quo he has every right to point it out. He is really patient I don't know how many would answer the same questions over and over again and pretty much every discussion is send to him to get the "official approval", which he can't give by design of the storygroup. Pablo is useful until he supports you and sucks if he doesn't this is entitled fandom at it's worst.

    Who are "we"? Yes you can say say no, but I doubt it influences the legacy of star wars more then Plagi the gffa.
     
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  18. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Decision for continuation of SW saga with discontinuation and disconnection of main villain logic will have serrous consequences on position of Star Wars as a legacy of human culture. It is because SW are significant legacy of the human culture already, and as such are ,or should be treated.

    It may seem idiotic or delusional of grandeur that what am I saying,but you'l, see ( if Snoke is not Plagueis), we just need to wait, time is the greatest Lord.
     
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  19. Rieekan

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    We haave a much better continuation, a character with screen time, who did actually something, Vader and his footprints on the gffa.
     
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  20. McDiarmid

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    Oh, you mean a boy who was influenced as a kid and de-facto kidnapped by the discontinued and disconnected pop up darksider Snoke?

    It is all result of a coup that silently happened in LSL few years ago. A group of people who's spiritus movens is "story above all, forget connection and legacy" has won.

    I just would like if it would be possible to establish parameters by which they will take responcibility for what they (appears to) are doing to Star Wars legacy.
     
    #60 McDiarmid, Jul 24, 2017
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