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SPECULATION The Force Awakens is a great movie.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, May 14, 2018.

  1. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    Yes! Aren't they gorgeous? I might get the Rey one later, we'll see.
     
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  2. Shadowblade

    Shadowblade Clone Commander

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    Funny about that tingling feeling...had the exact same leaving the cinema. Trying to convince myself I liked it. Then just thinking too much and seeing TLJ for what it truly was.

    And yeah, it’s a myth that most TLJ haters didn’t like TFA. TLJ dislike is just a much higher percentage overall, should be around 30% through a guesstimate.I wonder how it would have turned out with JJ taking care of all 3...

    The lack of planning in this franchise just baffles me, not to mention their incompetence handling PR.
     
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  3. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish Rebel General

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    JJ is a great director perfectly suited to Star Wars. He's an average to decent writer though, he did a good job writing TFA but it's not his strength. I love TFA, it's the best of the new films for me still thanks to how well acted and directed it is mainly.

    I'm happy JJ's back directing, but i wish someone else was writing tbh. I'd even be happy waiting a few more years for someone to take their time with the script. But it is what it is and I'm sure he'll do great with IX
     
  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I liked TFA when it first came out and it played with the nostalgia in all of us and set up some interesting plot/characters points that were kept me intruiged for the next 2 movies. 3 years later the movie doesn't hold up, partly cause of TLJ but partly cause JJ set up the macro story too much like the OT.

    TLJ pretty much killed TFA (sorry but Luke tossing the lightsaber should be in Spaceballs 2 and I honestly can't watch the TFA ending now without thinking about it). So a portion of the blame goes to Rian Johnson as you feel like you are essentially watching 2 different movies from 2 different people who forgot that this was supposed to be a cohesive story.

    But part of the blame goes to JJ for rebooting this Trilogy with all of the macro plot points from the OT: Resistance vs First Order, Rey trying to redeem Kylo Ren, etc. I just don't really care about Episode 9 in a big story sense (I feel like we've been there done that with everything and nothing can really salvage it at this point.

    TFA is still a fun romp if it comes on Cable, but these movies are part of a bigger story and that is where the movie and the Trilogy fall short.
     
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  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    I enjoyed TFA when it first came out but now that movie is the root of my displeasure of the ST not TLJ to be honest. I think the biggest mistake was forcing TLJ pick right back up at the end of TFA. There should of been a time jump (even if it was only a few months). That really limited the story for the next movie.
     
  6. Ganon136

    Ganon136 Intelligence Officer

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    Coming back into this thread, without trying to get too into detail, here are my thoughts on both films:

    TFA did everything right to bring everyone from every age group back into Star Wars after ten years without a film and 32 years since RotJ. It gave us brand new characters, but didn't dive too deep into their storyline just to leave us with enough to dive deeper into. It made sure to hit the check marks of what makes a Star Wars film fun, enjoyable, and have tons of rewatchability without having to force humor, try and push hard plots, or making you feel too uncomfortable. It was a film made for the general moviegoing audience to relaunch a brand by all means.

    Then TLJ came along and split the fanbase. My general consensus talking to everyone is that most of the people who keep up with a lot of the canon material and live and breathe Star Wars are the ones who tended to enjoy The Last Jedi more than the general moviegoing audiences. Even if you don't like Rian Johnson's directorial decisions, what this film did was something I was not expecting, but after several rewatches makes sense. The Last Jedi, regardless of how it was received by audiences, was the film that had to break expectations in the saga. With Disney buying the brand, I've had the inkling Lucasfilm planned on doing one final saga trilogy or at least leave a break to do some other content after Episode IX before ever considering another trilogy. To be able to make sustainable Star Wars content beyond Episode IX, one film before the end of the Skywalker saga was going to need to be different to break up the mold of what most Star Wars movies fit. As we learned with Rogue One and Solo, the spinoff films and subsequent other films will need to chart their own path. They are going to make a name for themselves with Star Wars being the backdrop for these new tales and adventures. They are going to do brand new things that no one expects and go to places we have never explored before with maybe the occasional familiar locale just to appease audiences. The reason I believe that Lucasfilm wanted to break the mold so early was to prepare audiences for films like Solo and the upcoming Benioff and Weiss-led content. They are preparing their audiences for something new and jarring that they may not be used to. It was dipping a toe into the potential future of the brand and seeing how audiences reacted. Using that data, Lucasfilm can plan accordingly for future content. Was it the best move to completely try a ton of new indie-style content? Maybe not, but this is why TLJ had to be their only shot:

    With The Force Awakens being the reintroduction film back into the saga under a new captain at the wheel (Disney), they would gauge general interest in the mainline saga content. With Rogue One, they are testing to see how audiences would react to new characters and a side story that would lead up to and involve familiar characters we already know and tie it directly to a saga film that is a standard classic. Solo dives into the deeper new side stories but is being bold enough to rewrite the story of a character (to some degree) of a beloved character while weaving itself into broader canon material (which we learned would tie directly into the animated side and comics as well). Episode IX has to tie the entire Skywalker saga up with a massive Star Wars bow, but must be immaculately perfect tying in elements of old and new in a symphony that is sure to blow our faces off and attempt to stick the biggest landing we need. This is why The Last Jedi, in the middle of all 5 films and sandwiched between two spinoffs, may have been a testing ground to prepare the fanbase for the larger story to be told

    This is Lucasfilm's way of telling you that we are not even ready for the amount of content that is about to be thrown at us. You thought we were drowning in content already! Just wait until the credits roll on Episode IX and the floodgates open to creators and authors.
     
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  7. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    That's interesting because I get the opposite reaction among the people I know and work with. My friends who are diehard SW fans (and EU readers) disdain TLJ, where the people I know who are more casual SW fans really enjoyed the movie. The people I know who hated it have been invested in Luke's character since 1977, so his arc (along with flipping the lightsaber) was a huge turnoff to the movie. Where the casual fans I know weren't as invested in Luke, so they were able to enjoy the movie and not think about the Big Picture Saga story and really watch it as a standalone just like any blockbuster they goto. The bottom line is the diehards are still talking about it cause they hated it and trying to come to terms with it, where the casual fans I know have moved on to the next blockbuster as it's in the rear view mirror.

    What's interesting is that is EXACTLY how the movie does and doesn't work for me. If I try to watch it as Part 8 of a 9 Saga story, it really falls flat. But if I watch it as a standalone movie and don't really think about the other movies and their narrative, I really enjoy it.
     
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  8. Ganon136

    Ganon136 Intelligence Officer

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    I think it's timing more than anything. I have noticed that people who tend to prefer the EU and that side of the universe hate The Last Jedi with major disdain because it goes against the Luke they grew up with in the 80s and 90s. It tends to be people (such as myself) that have only been readers of the more recent Canon that tend to enjoy TLJ a little more. I think it all just depends on what you grew up reading and the assumptions we all had for the direction Luke could go. I think getting away from legacy characters may be the best thing to help the fanbase to heal because their treatment is so controversial and everyone has their interpretation on how they wish the sequel trilogy was handled. There are still a lot of people that are mad about Han being dead for instance.
     
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  9. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I agree with you on that cause I ended up loving the standalones more then the Saga movies for that reason alone. I liked Rogue One because it is essentially a Prequel to ANH, but you get all new characters that make the movie feel fresh and original, even though the story is about the Death Star. I loved Solo essentially because it wasn't played by Harrison Ford (he is too iconic for a Prequel) so the movie feels fresh with a 'new' Han and Lando, along with new characters like Quira , Beckett, etc. The Saga movies get held back in a narrative sense because they are trying to tie all of these bow and ribbons with OT characters, PT characters, ST characters, OT plot points, PT plot points, etc, the movies can never move forward. All I keep hearing about Episode 9 is powerful Luke, Lando, old Leia footage, and it feels like its a greatest hits movie to appease the Anti-TLJ crowd.
     
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  10. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebelscum

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    It’s an ok film. Essentially a soft reboot of A New Hope, but not anywhere near as good and certainly not anywhere near as groundbreaking.
     
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