The Force Awakens - "The Worst Movie Of All Time" (Video Review)

I think the argument that "TFA was made to mirror ANH in many ways, so as to sort of ease audiences into a new generation of Star Wars" has been made. There's not really any point debating that, at this point. Instead of pretending like we don't know why this was done, a more productive use of our time should be "Did it work?"

 

Considering it didn't have Luke, killed Han, sidelined Leia until the 3rd act, and we're still here salivating like Jabba's poor rancor to continue Rey's journey, and get back to Finn, Poe and Kylo....yeah, it did.

 

I've always kinda thought this was the point.
Us Star Wars wonks weren't the true target...my 10 and 9 year old cousins were.
They made the movie for them the way ANH and TPM were made to hook us at 10 years old.

They made a movie we'd enjoy and give us our member berries while still making a film that gives something to look forward to and hook those kids into the world.

 

Exactly. It's a fun film with some old incredibly iconic characters for the old fans, and a lot of incredibly compelling new characters for the new fans.

Fans have had 30+ years to speculate on what happened after ROTJ- I get that there were a lot of let down expectations, but during that 30 years Star Wars very much kind of ran away with itself. While the EU was a ton of fun, it also got kind of confusing and contradictory at points- that's why it's "Legends" now, and it's also very much a part of the reason the JJ had to reign in TFA as part of the familiar.

I'd absolutely agree. Some people didn't like it, sure- but I think many of them are still stuck on that first question, when they should probably look more to the future.

 

Bingo.
JJ had to reimmerse us in Star Wars. He had to make it feel like that same universe that we had in the OT, where the PT missed a bit, he made everything feel like the OT and to some I get why it was too much the same

 

Sorry for off topic, felt like defending myself...

There is a difference between debate and arguing. Amanaman likes to argue points that make no sense, and constantly contradicts himself like citing definitive "mistakes" in the movie, but my defense of those instances are just my "opinion". Or using non-sequiturs like saying it was a narrative mistake for Kylo to do something because Vader didn't do it, or citing the fashion trends of other characters on other planets as reasons why Poe's jacket was " common place" on Jakku even though no one else was seen with one. How about we "debate" why Jabba was so fat in ROTJ yet we don't see him eat much...must be a mistake. Or why Chewbacca knew Boba Fett's name even though no one spoke it before then...must be a mistake. Do we really need this kind of debate?

And how was I rude and "foul"? Did I call him a fat idiot, say he should go die, or insult his mother? No. I didn't even call him a "self centered dork" like he did to me, I didn't resort to name calling.

After he said my points were "incoherent", I said he needs to improve his reading comprehension, and you can consider it my opinion although there is enough evidence that it is more than that, because he clearly doesn't understand the points others are making or how nonsensical his own points are, not an insult, just an observation.

I said his statements were "silly" and is a degree of asserting ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills, things that are kind of important if you are trying to "debate" someone. I simply pointed out he lacks the skills to properly debate and assert an opinion which if we are being honest is very evident. Does this really seem rude and insulting? It's not rude and insulting to call someone's hard work incoherent when there is nothing credible to support those claims? And I simply said he doesn't understand the things he is trying to criticize which is a valid point when "debating" someone and he said these things about me in return:

This is the kind of logic you spout after trying to look so intellectual? Did you even bother to watch the movie? If you were as smart as you claim to be...

I hate to come down like a jerk for descending to your level and going on the offensive but it garbage like ''Well, the other problem is people who have a severe lack of critical thinking skills are trying to criticize things they don't understand, and strongly asserting their ignorance in the process.'' that makes me loose my cool. Maybe you should try to be the less ignorant one next time and try to prove you points without attacking the fellow poster. You try to come out as wise and intellectual with all your blah blah blah but it all falls to the ground when you try to attack me personally just to try to give weight to your words.

I then said he is ridiculous and grasps to points that don't make sense for which he called me a self centered dork. So how was I "rude" exactly? I guess I'll try harder next time. I could have said he's an incoherent moron who's ability to insult anyone is non-existent due to his extremely low level of intelligence...now THAT would be an insult. Don't read between the lines, I'm not saying he is, that would be rude, just giving an example of what an insult looks like.

 

Just because Kylo is really good at certain things, does that make him more powerful than Vader? I'm sure you can find Youtube videos of 80 year olds sinking free throws better than Shaq, that doesn't make them a better basketball player.

And what does Kylo actually know about Vader? He never saw him in action. What he knows is likely a patch work of facts, exaggerations and straight up lies. But even if he did know everything, what Kylo believes about himself is still subjective and possibly inaccurate. Even if he is more powerful, that fact is pointless if Kylo doesn't believe it himself and/or holds himself to a higher standard. Some of the most beautiful people in the world can't bring themselves to look at pictures of themselves. Some beautiful people are so afraid of becoming old and ugly and so dissatisfied with themsevles that they destroy their bodies with plastic surgery. Top athletes have self confidence issues all the time. Aaron Rodgers is doing things Brett Favre could never dream of, does that mean Rodgers doesn't still compare himself to Favre? Doesn't stop everyone else.

You are also comparing Kylo in his physical prime to a badly injured, half robot 60 year old. And why can't we argue that if Kylo was so powerful he should have blocked the blast like Vader did on Bespin and not get hit by it. And look what Vader did in RO. But the whole "powerful" thing gets so subjective...what does it actually mean? Vader held his own against Obi-Wan (ROTS) yet Kylo struggled with Finn and Rey. It's really all about what Kylo believes, not what is actually "true".

But clearly, even though Kylo has power, and has many skills, he still needs training. Snoke even says so.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean its bad writing or a mistake.

 

Because Maz tells her to close her eyes and feel the force flow through her and that is all the training she requires.

EDIT: And there is nothing clouded about that statement. They can fix it, but based on what we have seen so far, all the training she needed was Maz talking to her. We have seen nothing else.

 

I think both sides can be extreme. The complaints about the movie in this video are often silly. The movie doesn't have time to shore up everything. Some of it is left to the imagination.

However, Ep. 7 had some flaws and as of now a few holes. I for one didn't think another super weapon was a good idea. I think it angered me a lot it didn't feel very new.

But it's not all bad, Rey, Fin, Poe, BB-8 are great. Kylo Ren is crazy cool. A Vader with a temper and sense of entitlement.

 

Starkiller Base is really just the worst maguffin in a long time. It serves no actual purpose to the story and is just there to be a place for other events to happen on without a new planet and it's my least favorite thing about TFA. It's just a dumb plot point added to:

1. Be the castle for Rey to be rescued from.
2. A convenient way to dismantle the resistance in one film.
3. A single place that makes complete sense to incorporate several Star Wars tropes.
i. Trench runs
ii. Long shaft for someone to fall down.
iii. Big confrontation with mentor dying.

Is it a movie ruiner? No. It's just uninspired and a plot device to get everyone where they need to be. You take it out and replace it with Kylolandia, a new snowy planet and it's the same movie without the third Death Star rehash. Find a different way to dismantle the Resistance.

That's why I think the movie mirrors ANH less than people give it credit for because Starkiller Base is for all intents and purposes, an after thought for most of the film except for two scenes: the one where they decide it needs to blow up and when it blows up the Republic. ANH is all about the Death Star by the large.

 

I do see it as an unneeded device that could have been used to discuss other things. Maybe even have Rey discover the Jedi training stuff on the MF and use it. If you're gonna mirror something, do that.

There are countless ways to show how ruthless the First Order is. The Star Killer base just had too much simlualities.

I liked the movie, but I do feel there were miss opportunities. However, the pressures involved in pleasing everyone and critics must of been heavy, so...

 

yeah looking back, this movie isnt' "the worst movie of all time," but it's probably "the worst star wars movie of all time" (for me).

 

Together with ESB the best SW movie of all time.

 

That video is the most cancerous thing i've ever seen. I'm done looking at the internet when it comes to Star Wars.

The cynicism is crazy and it sucks people in.. i'm disgusted that people have been brainwashed into disliking it after being fans.

Seriously, i'm done. I'm happy to casually watch these movies every once in a while, but i'm done being obsessive over Star Wars.. you lose sight of what it is. Star Wars is a very straight forward and easy to understand saga, it's always been designed for 12 year olds (Lucas' words) and there's only so far you can analyze until you miss the point. Alec Guinness was so right to say what he did to that kid.

 

The prequels' flaws are critical failings. They are absolutely indefensible. TFA's flaws are not critical failings. They did not ruin the entire movie the way the myriad of stupid and nonsensical decisions made on the prequels did. And that is the difference.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2017 ---

TPM received mixed reviews. TFA received a clear majority of positive reviews. TFA sold 20 million more tickets than TPM and became the 11th most popular film of all time when adjusted for inflation. Take a look at the other 10 films beneath TFA and tell me if we as a collective culture consider them to be great films or not:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017 ---

The idea that in order to appeal to children, you need a ridiculous goofball that steps in poop and gets farted on and that my taking issue to that means I'm expecting that all the characters need to appeal to me and not the intended child audience. And yet somehow, children in 1977 had no problem loving all the characters in that movie, from the human heroes to the droids, to Chewie, and not one of them needed to engage in cheap, tasteless, cringe-inducing potty humor. These characters were created by the same guy who created Jar Jar. So what exactly changed in the 16-year gap between trilogies hat made it necessary for a child-friendly character to need to be a poopy farty jackass goofball?

 

TFA seemed to be just a bunch of really likable characters running around doing a bunch of dumb stuff in a dumb plot with no resolution.
So 1 point for cool new characters. And -1 point for dumb plot with no resolution. So I'm calling it average.
...Well I'll go ahead and give it 1 more point for having a really cool sword fight at the end. So slightly above average...For me.

 

Kids enjoyed it.

Once again it's what suits you. It's all about you.

So what a character stepped in poo? So what? So what he acted goofy? So what?

People laughed. Kids laughed. People had a good time with Episode 1.

What ruined the PT was people like you conistently griping about it when it didn't suit your sense of humor. He appealed to people with that exact characterization of humor.

But people, as I said, like you expect things to be your way, and I bet you carry this atitude in your daily life and interactions.

Much similar to Sith actually, dejoying people of what they like for their own desires. They even get a twisted pleasure from it.

 

And yet that is simply your opinion and nothing more. Every day more and more people keep opening their eyes to the flaws of TFA. You just have to go around youtube and the internet and see for yourself. You also mention TFA making alot of money. Well Duh! This is the movie that was going to be about what happened to our OT heroes after ROTJ and featured Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia and Han Solo. Would you really think that no matter how bad it could be, the movie wouldn't make money? The main villain could have been a tube of toothpaste with a lightsaber and still that movie would have made millions. That's fan hype my friend and nothing more. Take TPM for example. Here you have the movie that fans say they hate and that ruined SW yet said movie IS STILL in the list of highest grossing movies from all time. How do you explain that? Fan hype my friend! It was so long that we hadn't had a new SW movie that fans just went wild and flocked to the theatres. You see, that's the difference between me and the PT bashers/TFA defenders. I love the PT yet I don't try to lie to myself by saying that nobody hated those movies. TFA defenders on the other hand desperately try to defend the movie trying to hide the fact that said movie had so many flaws and was disliked as well. I'm cool with fans disliking the PT and I respect their opinions but it's a little funny when somebody doesn't agree with them and all off a sudden their opinion is valid and everyone elses isn't. You HAVE to accept the PT sucked but you CAN'T think the same of TFA? I don't think so.

 

I would answer about the whole money thing but Amanaman already beat me to it. Needless to say though is that some of the things done in TFA were so absurd that even Mark Hamill has been saying it.

I wonder if you will now say that Hamill doesn't know a thing about Star Wars.