1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

The Force Belongs to Us: THE LAST JEDI’s Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Violet Gekko

    Violet Gekko Clone

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Posts:
    52
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    22
    Credits:
    75
    Ratings:
    +80 / 23 / -19
    Let the past die. Kill it. If you have to.
    Then kill the present also. Ditch it. If you have to.
    Don't care about the future. Ignore it. If you have to.

    . you're the main target of Darth Mouse so i'm not surprised.
     
    #221 Violet Gekko, Dec 26, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Posts:
    244
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    1,597
    Credits:
    704
    Ratings:
    +437 / 22 / -4

    The answer wasn’t obvious. It’s only to her cause she read the script and knows what happens later.

    Her lineage was clouded in mysteries in the first one. Why does a lightsaber that’s been missing for thirty years suddenly reappear? TFA emphasized that who she was is important. Kylo Ren saying “the girl I’ve heard so much about,” it’s like he’s heard about her more than once.

    Maz Kanata asking “who’s the girl?” to Han then cutting to rey walking to the lightsaber. It’s very misleading. If TFA had clearly dramatized and just said her parents are no one from the start no one would complain but because they hit you over the head with mystery boxes, a lot of people are confused and find the story of this trilogy slightly muddled.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  3. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Posts:
    2,055
    Likes Received:
    2,683
    Trophy Points:
    10,967
    Credits:
    3,827
    Ratings:
    +4,522 / 197 / -46
    Not only that, all the banter with Han, pointing to a possible connection, the hug with Leia, it was clearly done on purpose to tease the audience. The sole idea of mentioning Rey's parents at all is evidence for this, if her parents where not important from the beginning why mention them at all? Dis we ever wonder who Obi-Wan's parents were? or Yoda? or Mace?
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    14,158
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,832
    Ratings:
    +19,058 / 303 / -96
    People simple chose to see connections where they didn't exist. The Force Awakens was intentionally vague on the subject. Rewatching TFA after The Last Jedi one could see why Daisy says it's obvious. The reason so many people thought differently is that they're programmed by Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi to simple connect everyone to a Skywalker.

    There are still people who hope she's a Solo. It's almost like some weird Star Wars prerequisite.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Bruno

    Bruno Clone

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    9
    Credits:
    322
    Ratings:
    +26 / 3 / -0
    That is still your interpretation. When I first watched TFA, I never once doubted that Rey was a nobody. People in the audience that saw hints at her being a Skywalker or something were actively looking for those hints. For example, when Kylo says "What girl?", it’s only him asking a simple question. It’s not Kylo thinking "is this girl the long lost Skywalker daughter that was dumped on Jakku by her loving father many years ago?". But some fans read too much into that question.

    Also, when Han Solo talked to her after landing at Maz place, and offering her a job, some fan again saw hints of a family connection there. To me, it was simply Han Solo that kind of liked the girl and was akwardly trying to get her to join his crew.

    I watched TFA a few days after seeing TLJ, and everything fits with a Rey nobody.

    The question of her parents was important because she was abandoned and it was a traumatising event in her life. It’s something that keeps her from moving forward, an obstacle she has to overcome. Han acted as a surrogate father for a bit but she rejected this because she is deluding herself thinking that her real parents will be back someday.
     
    #225 Bruno, Dec 27, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  6. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Posts:
    244
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    1,597
    Credits:
    704
    Ratings:
    +437 / 22 / -4

    As I said, it was not obvious. They left her backstory clouded in mystery because Abrams had no plan or idea what he was setting up. He just threw a bunch of random red herrings for the sake of it. He basically gave the audience the right to speculate that she is someone of great importance or something significant. Hence the lightsaber visions, obi wan voices, Rey saying “where I come from classified,” also that ship flying away from her.

    If they had just made Rey a nobody from the beginning there would be no debate, none whatsoever.

    Yea you can say that the OT was not all planned out but ANH was a fully realized stand alone film that didn’t rely on mystery boxes which is what TFA is.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  7. Bruno

    Bruno Clone

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    9
    Credits:
    322
    Ratings:
    +26 / 3 / -0
    But the classified comment had nothing to do with a mysterious past. It was her reaction to BB-8 telling her his identity was classified. It was a mix of not really believing him and yeah yeah, whatever robot, you don’t want to tell me, I don’t want to tell you. A little bit of harmless sarcasm. Rey at this point is the story is pretty independenr and used to keeping her weaknesses hidden. She lives in a harsh environment and has to act like she is tough and doesn’t much care about anyone else. Show weakness in this environment, and they will make you suffer.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    14,158
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,832
    Ratings:
    +19,058 / 303 / -96
    Spot on.... Daisy knew the answer before TFA was released. RJ's script was complete months before the release of TFA.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    14,158
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,832
    Ratings:
    +19,058 / 303 / -96
    Instead of creating another thread, I'll just tack this on to this one... This is an interesting look at myth in Star Wars.

    The Last Jedi Isn’t for the Fans: It’s about fandom and how it leads even Star Wars characters astray.


     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel General

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Posts:
    352
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    4,072
    Credits:
    1,058
    Ratings:
    +803 / 7 / -9
    I consider the whole train of thought to be a retcon though. When I was coming up it was THE STAR WARS Saga not the Skywalker saga and the OT was the adventures of Luke Skywalker not the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

    Hell, Return of the Jedi only became the finale when Lucas was having family problems, was also wanting to avoid his career essentially turning into Star Wars (which it did anyway for all the difference it made with his filmmaking) and branch out, or that the actors wanted to move on.
    So about 15 years later he slaps some weak CGI celebration montage and focused on the prequels along with transforming the narrative to the fall and redemption of Anakin after the fact.

    I love George Lucas and wouldn't be the same person without his influence though we've never met but all of this near religious knee scraping for his evolutions of what was the case is almost a silly version of A Brave New World to me.

    I'm not edit/deleting my memories and impressions or accepting Obi-Wan is some delusional habitial liar because he changed his mind over the years about all kinds of stuff.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2018, Original Post Date: May 17, 2018 ---
    I consider the whole train of thought to be a retcon though. When I was coming up it was THE STAR WARS Saga not the Skywalker saga and the OT was the adventures of Luke Skywalker not the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

    Hell, Return of the Jedi only became the finale when Lucas was having family problems, was also wanting to avoid his career essentially turning into Star Wars (which it did anyway for all the difference it made with his filmmaking) and branch out, or that the actors wanted to move on.
    So about 15 years later he slaps some weak CGI celebration montage and focused on the prequels along with transforming the narrative to the fall and redemption of Anakin after the fact.

    I love George Lucas and wouldn't be the same person without his influence though we've never met but all of this near religious knee scraping for his evolutions of what was the case is almost a silly version of A Brave New World to me.

    I'm not edit/deleting my memories and impressions or accepting Obi-Wan is some delusional habitial liar because he changed his mind over the years about all kinds of stuff.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    14,158
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,832
    Ratings:
    +19,058 / 303 / -96
    Kennedy described the episodes at the "Skywalker Saga" simply because that's the easiest way to tied the episodes together. Plus, Rogue One/Solo are separate stories. Some people thought that "Skywalker Saga = Rey Skywalker," and that ultimately left some people disappointed. At some point Lucasfilm was going to have to stop this lineage thing and I'm happy that RJ did it in TLJ.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  12. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Posts:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,939
    Ratings:
    +4,429 / 293 / -150
    Why kill off the Skywalkers? Why all? Still haven't gotten a good answer.

    I mean Superman still sells after 80 YEARS.
     
  13. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    81,144
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    46,694
    Ratings:
    +85,938 / 84 / -31
    You do realize that Kylo is a Skywalker, right?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    14,158
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,832
    Ratings:
    +19,058 / 303 / -96
    I think you answered your own question.
    Sure Superman still sells (not as much as it used to sell), but why keep telling the same story? I still haven't heard a good answer for telling the same story over and over again.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,664
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,708
    Ratings:
    +43,315 / 189 / -99
    Do we have to count the times they've killed Superman now? Lol.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,358
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,837
    Ratings:
    +157,681 / 65 / -7
    or made him evil, or took away his powers, or any one of a hundred other things that incensed and alienated fans?

    Superman is fine. the Skywalkers will be fine.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Posts:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,939
    Ratings:
    +4,429 / 293 / -150
    Because A TON of people like familiarity!
     
  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,664
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,708
    Ratings:
    +43,315 / 189 / -99
    Red Son.....haha Commie Superman lol.

    Or how about Hydra Captain America.
    (Okay that one is actually terrible because his whole identity is being anti-Nazi and if you make him one, he's pointless)
     
  19. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    81,144
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    46,694
    Ratings:
    +85,938 / 84 / -31
    You know what people complained the most about TFA? It was too similar to Hope. :rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,358
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,837
    Ratings:
    +157,681 / 65 / -7
    honest to God, i adore Superman, but right now my favorite comic is Injustice 2, in which he's the worst.

    i understand holding some things sacrosanct, but if Star Wars survived Attack of the Clones, Crystal Star, and the likes of Luuke, it'll survive TLJ too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
Loading...

Share This Page