1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

The Force Belongs to Us: THE LAST JEDI’s Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Posts:
    393
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    2,552
    Credits:
    1,129
    Ratings:
    +690 / 72 / -49
    I was in a debate with someone that didnt seem to know that Star Wars is a family chronicle.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---
    We saw some of it in ANH. And you have to remember that we doesnt see every lesson on Dagobah.
     
  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,359
    Likes Received:
    15,441
    Trophy Points:
    146,267
    Credits:
    14,965
    Ratings:
    +20,581 / 309 / -97
    How do we know that Luke never trained her? There's a pretty huge gap of time unaccounted for between episodes.

    This idea that everything has to be explained... Go rewatch the OT and count the things unexplained.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    400
    Likes Received:
    539
    Trophy Points:
    4,467
    Credits:
    1,151
    Ratings:
    +1,020 / 40 / -16
    here's the thing, their "social agenda" doesn't even hold up. The token black guys is a "coward/lol janitor", at least until its time to explain some new FO tech. (miniaturized death star tech ya'll.) And rey, their girl power symbol was turned into a supporting character, especially by the third act.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3,540
    Trophy Points:
    12,942
    Credits:
    5,673
    Ratings:
    +4,042 / 32 / -11
    The theme is about not letting expectations based on a last name/family legacy or lack of last name/family legacy determine your future and decision making.

    The fact that the Skywalker line/family legacy is ending thematically pairs well with that notion. Not sure how it’s contrived. Sounds like many fans still pining for Mara Jade and the solo siblings.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---
    Oh dear lord. The venom in this post. How dare they have minorities and strong female leads. It’s fans like you that are the problem. Take your bitching about a “social agenda” and money and get out of the fandom. It’s art. Who cares if you don’t like it.
     
  5. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Posts:
    352
    Likes Received:
    601
    Trophy Points:
    6,257
    Credits:
    1,317
    Ratings:
    +882 / 8 / -3
    Look, I'm not one of those people who thinks if a minority actor gets a job it's because of a social agenda. I don't think Finn's role or casting has anything to do with that. Boyegas acting is great and he deserves his role on merit alone.

    I didn't even think Rey was part of a social agenda. I don't think a female lead = left wing liberal conspiracy.

    What's different here is that you had a person in power specifically pushing for something that seems to fit a social agenda. I never made any of these claims until I found out someone pushed for this and it resulted in an unnecessary and awkward scene.

    I'm not a Breitbart troll, but KK pushing for this doesn't seem right.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  6. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    400
    Likes Received:
    539
    Trophy Points:
    4,467
    Credits:
    1,151
    Ratings:
    +1,020 / 40 / -16
    Minorities that are space janitors?! You can't think finn is a positive representation of black men. Are you really this blind?!?!?! You watched a movie where the ONLY black character is depicted as a bumbling coward who largely plays a side kick while explaining how he used to mop star destroyers, yet you think i'm the problem?! Holy Maclunkey blast.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,359
    Likes Received:
    15,441
    Trophy Points:
    146,267
    Credits:
    14,965
    Ratings:
    +20,581 / 309 / -97
    Why is it strange that Leia can use the force? 30 years has passed since RotJ. You know what she did and didn't learn in that time? I don't understand this criticism.
     
  8. The Nerf Herder!

    The Nerf Herder! Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2015
    Posts:
    108
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    3,657
    Credits:
    1,070
    Ratings:
    +351 / 7 / -1
    Are you people kidding me. I should have known these forums would turn into "fans" bickering over Finn's race and these films having a female lead. This is exactly what happened before and after TFA on these forums, and it's ridiculous. GET OVER IT!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Posts:
    202
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    2,372
    Credits:
    929
    Ratings:
    +547 / 21 / -5
    lol!! Thank goodness you clarified it was sarcasm. I wasn't sure at first =)

    I really don't think that's what they are implying. Also, you must ask yourself, would you be as militantly strident if the messages of the film went against your theories of ideal social representation? If so, by all means, cast judgement. If not, well ...

    And that's always going to be the nuanced difference that some people get and some people don't. It's a philosophical difference in which people who very much want the same thing either prioritize the ends or the means. Simple as that.

    Deep breathes. =) Rise above it, friend. Rise above it.

    Personally, I don't think anyone familiar with the franchise takes issue with Leia using the force. I think most long-time fans think it's about damn time we saw Leia use the force. And it should be in a powerful way. I think the only thing people are taking issue with is the precise execution of her power's reveal. And that goes right down to the specificity of how the scene was shot and edited. And those criticisms are very valid if you ask me. So, it's not that she has power or a great deal of it that most people criticize, it's the decision to make her look like space superman/marry poppins that is turning people off. That's just my hunch though.
     
  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,359
    Likes Received:
    15,441
    Trophy Points:
    146,267
    Credits:
    14,965
    Ratings:
    +20,581 / 309 / -97
    I wonder if this because the actress died. I loved it. Something similar happened in Star Wars Rebels.
     
  11. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Posts:
    202
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    2,372
    Credits:
    929
    Ratings:
    +547 / 21 / -5
    That's interesting. What scene in Rebels are you referring to? I've seen all the episodes but I can't recall it.
     
  12. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Posts:
    352
    Likes Received:
    601
    Trophy Points:
    6,257
    Credits:
    1,317
    Ratings:
    +882 / 8 / -3
    If you can accept that somehow Leia became super strong in the force with not a single mention of Luke training then that's cool.

    I see Leia displaying a pretty impressive use of the force with no real explanation. Sure we can explain it away that Luke taught her. But do any of the other cannon materials indicate this? From what I know Luke has spent the last few decades trying to rebuild the Jedi order then being in self exile because of his failure. I don't really see where he had time to teach her to that degree. You could argue that he taught her before he started the academy. But if she was so powerful in the force when Ben was born, why did she send him to Luke?

    If you're cool with just saying that's what happened because it fills in a gaping plot hole (and a forced one at that) and it doesn't impact your enjoyment of the film, then more power to you.

    I need at least some breadcrumb to explain to me how someone could attain that much power. I don't expect you to agree with me, but I would think you can at least see where I'm coming from.

    Also my opinion is colored by the fact that that power and how it was carried out in the film was the absolute low point of the movie for me. If that one scene is removed, I probably would have liked the movie more (overall I still liked it).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,359
    Likes Received:
    15,441
    Trophy Points:
    146,267
    Credits:
    14,965
    Ratings:
    +20,581 / 309 / -97
    She uses the force in the Leia book that was released a few months ago, but she's unaware of it. I find her space moment in the same level of believability as an untrained Luke pulling the saber on Hoth.

    This isn't a plot hole.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---
    Kanan survives in space before getting back into a ship. I can't remember which episode.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    Eh. Considering there is no gravity in space, she would only need to giver herself the slightest pull towards the ship to head endlessly back. It wouldn't have to be a constant pull. Wouldn't require that much effort to do that.
     
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  15. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Posts:
    2,055
    Likes Received:
    2,683
    Trophy Points:
    10,967
    Credits:
    3,898
    Ratings:
    +4,522 / 197 / -46
    I don't like this movie for several reasons but the Leia scene didn't bother me and I don't see anything impressive about it, she just used basic jedi telekinesis to pull herself to the ship, much like Luke pulling the lightsaber in the wampa cave.
     
  16. Luke-saber

    Luke-saber Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2015
    Posts:
    56
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    757
    Credits:
    604
    Ratings:
    +125 / 1 / -0
    I don't understand where it was said that only Skywalkers can be powerful force users. However, it's kind of the whole point of these episodic movies to tell the story of the Skywalker family. Why is that a bad thing? Save the main stories of other Force users until the next trilogy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2015
    Posts:
    795
    Likes Received:
    6,010
    Trophy Points:
    15,667
    Credits:
    8,146
    Ratings:
    +6,932 / 36 / -12
    The one with Maul and the holocrons at the starbase.

    Also...space whales!!! Ezra & Kanan both survive space jumps above the asteroid with only a helmet - which Ezra loses for a bit among the gas, and the space whale aka pergil helps him. (ghost)


    Speaking of Ezra - the kids leaping over streets as a 14 year street rat thief that has evaded Imperials on Lothal for years as a kid. The Bridgers must be cousins of the Kenobis. Obviously. Must be.

    Ahsoka is Force moving blocks as a toddler before Plo Koon brings her to the Jedi. Shaak Ti's lost daughter, obviously.
     
    #137 BobaFettNY21, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,359
    Likes Received:
    15,441
    Trophy Points:
    146,267
    Credits:
    14,965
    Ratings:
    +20,581 / 309 / -97
    The Last Jedi ends with a memorable face off between two members of the Skywalker family. No where is it stated that every force user must be a Skywalker family member which is entirely the point.
     
  19. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,295
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,738
    Ratings:
    +19,243 / 799 / -292
    Yoda: The Force is strong in your family...pass on what you have learned.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  20. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    382
    Likes Received:
    329
    Trophy Points:
    1,227
    Credits:
    778
    Ratings:
    +491 / 54 / -41
    That was already a part of the original saga considering that Luke and Anakin are father and son, yet made far different choices and held differing ethics as young men. Again, this isn't anything new.
     
    #140 Malus Dagoth, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page