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The Force is Female: A BS Story

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by Beauke, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Beauke

    Beauke Rebel Commander

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    I see a lot of people using the "The Force is Female" photo as prove that KK "hates" men, that she has a feminist agenda, ....

    The truth is, that the "Force is Female" shirt, had NOTHING to do with Star Wars. It was part of a Nike campaign for the celebration of the "Air Force One" shoe line and that they (and a couple of other companies) where celebrating woman who came at the top at their profession.

    And now to the photo of KK. It was taken at the Archer Film Festival, an event aimed at young woman who are interested in the film business and want their future job in the movie industry. She was invited to speak at it because she is one of the most succesfull producers in the industry.

    Now, take a look at this photo:
    [​IMG]

    They are all wearing that t-shirt. Why, probably because Nike was a sponsor to the festival (a festival organized by a school). What better way for a company to promote their line of shoes with a campaign about strong, succesfull woman, then at a festival that was aimed at young woman.
     
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  2. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Oh, finally somebody adressed that!

    The other "classic" argument is "Rian Johnson calling the fans "manbabies". In fact, by that tweet RJ was suggesting Gekk Girl Diva to stop feeding a specific troll - Jeff Schroeffel. A single person. Full story here:


    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 25, 2018 ---
    Another classic is "JJ Abrams says, that TLJ critics are afraid of women".
    To illustrate:

    If one didn't like TLJ -> one hates women

    What he actually meant is this:

    If one feels threated by women -> one won't like TLJ.

    So it's the other way around.

    Whatever you or I think about women in general and in SW in particular is not the point. The point is to keep facts straight.

    So, any other notable "attacks on SW fans"?
     
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  3. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I like the thread title. That's all my contribution. BS stories tire me.
     
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  4. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    A bit off-topic, and I'll be taking the kid gloves off here, but in the original post that's being quoted, there's an exchange suggesting that it would have been "more respectful" to Carrie Fisher and Leia's legacy if Leia f***ing died in that scene.

    What a stupid argument. I'm genuinely offended that there are people who actually think this because of how dumb it is and how disrespectful it is of the character. These are the same people who whine until the cows come home about how Luke drinking green milk from a space-titty is somehow character assassination in spite of Luke explicitly being raised as a farmer. And the same people would have whined until the cows came home that, if she died instead of having a visually-awkward scene that actually shows the character using the Force, then she would never get to reunite with Luke, which is a big part of this story's emotional payoff and would actually be a fair criticism had it come to pass. We already got enough of that when they killed Admiral Ackbar, a one-off character, was unceremoniously killed in the incident that led to "Mary Poppins Leia".

    More than enough proof that it's way easier to be a critic than it is to actually tell a story.
     
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  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, the self-victimization among some of the anti-TLJ crowd is frustrating, because we're not talking about them, but their interference is actually working to dismiss actual issues in the fandom.

    I understand how they could feel attacked, and I sympathize, but at some point you just have to actually listen to the points being made and realize what the discussion actually is.
     
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  6. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Why is this even happening? Do (some) people so strongly identify themselves with Star Wars that it's a personal insult if their faith is being tarnished? Or is it just current social issues (feminism, SJWs, alt-right etc) that spill over?
     
    #6 Jack_Forest, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2018
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  7. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    It’s a Nike slogan? Why isn’t anyone wearing Nike’s? Now I’M outraged!! Get your messaging right, people. My feet are very offended by this!
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    If we're talking about things taken completely out of context, we could add Rian Johnson talking about making deliberately divisive films: a remark not remotely about Star Wars and related to projects he was working on more than a decade ago. and as if a director's vision isn't unique to each project or evolves over time.

    he can't win. people say he's rude to the fans, but when he tries to genuinely answer their questions, they just accuse him of making excuses instead of listening.
    the man has the patience of a saint on twitter. : o p

    i may not agree with everything Johnson did in TLJ, but there's no doubt in my mind that he loves Star Wars like the sun moon and stars, that he loves the fandom in spite of its unsavory elements, and that Kathleen Kennedy picked the exact right person with the exact right temperament for the job.
     
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  9. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    sw copy.jpg .
     
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  10. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Another opportunity to shamelessly plug one of my editorials saying just this!

    To be fair, the clickbait-y headline from the original IndieWire story, and everyone who parroted said headline without reading his quote, are to blame for this one.
     
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  11. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Back on main topic, is there any actual evidence that KK is a diehard anti-men feminist other than the t-shirt and TLJ having too many "strong" women?
     
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  12. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Her directorial picks for Star Wars. Look at how diverse they are:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I feel like I'm noticing a trend here...
     
    #12 Pawek_13, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
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  13. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    This is one of my biggest issues with a lot of this talk. And to be clear, I'm not directing this at you @Jack_Forest, but rather to those who actually use the term in this manner.

    There is nothing, absolutely nothing, about feminism that automatically qualifies as being anti-men at the same time. Those are two exclusive things, but I feel a lot of people (mostly those who take offense to the term being thrown around in conjunction with their beloved franchise) use those almost interchangeably. Feminism isn't about saying women are superior to men, or that if you're feminist you are against the male's place in society; it's about equality. In truth, I think most people would identify as being ideologically feminist in thinking that both men and women should be treated equally in all facets of society. And yet the term continually gets thrown around with negative connotation.

    Sorry for the little rant. It's just very frustrating when people take offense to something that by definition isn't even offensive in the first place.
     
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  14. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Also before Ron Howard.... and before JJ
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #14 Andrew Waples, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Absolutely agreed. We need to avoid this kind of "Gotcha" tactics, because honestly, Kennedy probably does identify as a feminist. I mean, I do too, and I'd encourage pretty much everybody to also.

    I'm sure @Jack_Forest is using the phrase "anti-man" not to describe feminism, but to describe a small rogue splinter of feminism. But honestly, it's better if those terms aren't grouped together.

    It's probably not hard to link Kennedy to feminist ideals, and it's great that she holds them in my opinion!

    But to link her to "anti-man" ideas? Good luck.
     
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  16. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    That is usually described as "third wave feminism" and the label is usually attributed to the crazy ones, who hate men, say they are all "rapists" etc. I didn't really research any of that and since our local history of female rights is vastly different from the West, I don't really feel like I have to. Besides, that's not the point I am making.
    The point is, that a lot of angry narrative around TLJ is that KK is somehow anti-men and that is why TLJ has some many "strong" women, who teach men lessons. I've seen some actual man-bashing in the Western sci-fi, so I disagree that TLJ is anti-men, but the idea is getting around and I am just interested to see if there is any actual evidence for that, other than the t-shirt.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Nah, that's not third wave feminism either.

    But I get what you're saying. And yeah, I honestly have no idea where Kennedy would've said anything anti-man, and I really don't think that TLJ is simply because some guys get hit sometimes. Harm befalling people isn't exclusive to men in the movie by any means.
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I think it's both. The initial reaction to TLJ was really that of people who had their religion attacked.
    Then I think certain political sects saw a way in to garner favor with these disaffected people and woo them to their side.
     
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  19. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    KK should have known that wearing a "The Force is female" T-shirt could be used against her by trolls. It was a very bad PR move.
     
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  20. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    This is just mildly less offensive version of "She shouldn't have worn revealing clothes."

    No. She was appropriately dressed for the occasion and it was great PR move for the occasion. She bears no responsibility for the trolls. It's not her job to anticipate or appease the trolls. They manage to twist even the most benign and most positive moves made by LFL to make it somehow her fault.
     
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