The FORCE (then and now)

I think the Force was largely used in the PT in the same manner as the OT. I think the difference was rarity of Force Users. Now even during the height of the Jedi, there were no more that 10,000 which is tiny compared to the rest of the galaxy, it didn't feel like that since we saw so many on screen, especially during the Battle of Geinosis. But the Force losing part of its mysticality was inevitable since we'd be seeing more Force Users fighting each other in a much more polished manner.

 

You don't feel like they needed to give us more of the lore that was alluded to in the OT, when they filmed the PT? I mean we heard about how powerful Obi Wan and Yoda were in the OT, didn't we need to see it?

I felt like, as bad as the acting may have been in the PT, those films gave us the context of the power of the Force (both the Dark and the Light). It let us know what Luke was up against in RoTJ when he confronted Darth Vader and Palpatine. Without the prequels, Luke is just facing a really scary guy in a mask who can telekinetically choke people, and an Emperor who can fire lightening from his fingers. At least that's how it looks to me.

 

I think like most of star wars, there is an something that each person gravitates to. For me the absolutely best part of star wars is the Force. When i heard Obi Wan tell Luke what the Force was in Episode 4, it felt magical. When i saw Vader use the Force throughout Empire it was amazing to watch which is why Empire is my favorite. One of the things I did like about the PT is the fact that the Force was prominent, and no I am not talking about that midichlorian bantha poodoo. So for me, the Force is a mystical power, but a mystical power that allows for a deep philosophy that can be examined endlessly. I think a big gripe with the PT is the whole "midichlorian" bantha poodoo that almost took the mysticism power out of it, and once you take the mysticism, the philosophical nature and mystery is gone, then you just have some bland sci fi blast, which would be great in Star Trek, but NOT Star Wars. So the more about the Force that I get, the better, so long as you do not take away the philosophical and spiritual nature of the Force.

 

Respectfully, I think you may be blurring general story plot requirements with intentional mysterious plot angles. While at the same time not allowing technology and budgetary concerns of the times of each into the equation of each either like you mentioned with Jaws.

I believe somewhere Lucas said that if he could've done the OT with more force powers, he would've. He did go back and add more special effects after the fact. I know that rubs some fans the wrong way with the whole "Han shot first" argument, but I brought it up to sort of gives weight to that point.

For instance, I don't think Jaws is a good example. They showed Jaws as best as I can remember without combing through that entire movie to see, but still, if we're going to use Jaws as a comparison then in the sequels, Jaws was seen more and more and more.

Still tho, one thing comes to mind with this. Luke, Obi-Wan, Vader, Palpatine, and Yoda were, as we were told back then, the last of their kind who utilized the force. Therefore, of course, you would not see tons of Jedi/Force users and, therefore, an overwhelming display of the force in the Original Trilogy. This is what I mean by story plot requirements. The Original Trilogy's base story would not allow for rampant force use equivalent to the Prequel Trilogy.

The Prequel Trilogy's base storyline: Clone Wars, Rise of the Sith and arguably giving a glimpse of the Jedi at their height, warranted more force using display.

The same can be said for The Force Awakens or the New Trilogy. So far we're told, again, Force users are skim. Therefore, the display of the force would be minimal. But what does bother me is people are too caught up in Original Trilogy thinking. The New Trilogy has implied that the force may eventually be on more display as more force users "appear." But even if you don't allow for that, remember the Knights of Ren are more than two so that alone dictates there will probably be more force display in the movies to come.

While I can respect the need for build up and suspense, I would say that is largely subjective. For me, I have my problems with the PT, but I respect and appreciate the story it built around the OT which also set the stage for the NT like Rayjefury said. Without it, there's no true understanding for the atmosphere of the Empire, the Rebel Alliance, Luke's destiny, etc. While every force display in the PT could not be a teaser which sets up for the big show at the end, I think the overall combined three movies did a similar job to what you are thinking. In The Phantom Menace Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan only used the force as necessary. Relatively the same with the Attack of the Clones, the force was mainly used during confrontations and then after the big battle on Genosha, it was pretty much everything goes.

For me I enjoy Jedi vs Sith or Light vs Dark confrontations as much as I enjoy the rest of Star Wars.

 

Could it be chronology that's the problem then? Because as I see it, they're just not in a position to build up to an "event" that has already occurred in the past. Because it's the prequel , everything we are about to see, has already been elevated into our awareness. We know by context, "the what", we just don't know "the why".

We know that Anakin will fall, we know that he will become Vader, we know that Jedi will die, we know that Palpatine will become the emperor, we know that Yoda fought in the clone wars, and that in their day, he and Obi Wan were formidable Force Users, and we know the Force is powerful. The OT tells us about it, but the PT shows us. I feel like (among other things) they had to show us the force and not merely leave it to our imagination.

That it was not mere telekinesis, but something much more grand, something much more powerful, and therefore much more dangerous if not utilized carefully by disciplined minds. Without that, without that expansion of the domain of the Force, not only do we not have the foundation for new Force capabilities debuting in TFA, I don't think we successfully, convincingly, explain the "why" behind the rise of the Empire.

Just my two cents

 

Rayjefury and BrotherRoyVA's have such excellent replies to this topic, especially in pointing out that, during the Prequel Trilogy, there were many Force users in existence, so I will only focus on this point for now:

The more Star Wars films and stories there are, there is the greater likelihood that the Force, Force Sensitives, and even things like lightsabers can lose their sense of novelty among viewers.

The Force Awakens had relatively little in terms of Force usage, relative to the Prequel Trilogy, due to Kylo Ren being the main active Force user in the story.

Her Force vision aside (since it was a passive mystical experience actuated by her touching Luke/Anakin's lightsaber), Rey's Force usage manifested in subtle and fast ways (e.g. flying the Millennium Falcon, Jedi-mind-tricking the Stormtrooper) until the end, when the lightsaber flew to her and she was reminded by Kylo of the Force.

One of the things established firmly in The Empire Strikes Back is that the Force is incredibly mysterious and mystical, so much that no single Jedi, not even Yoda, had a total comprehensive knowledge of the Force.

So the magical/mystical quality of the Force is very much "still there," untapped in latent/potential form, and it has been relatively at rest since the end of Return of the Jedi.

I look forward to discovering more about the Force in Episodes VIII and IX and hope it continues to be a source of inspiration and enchantment for people, because it really is something special and not entirely understood.

JediMasterRobert

 

The use of the force as you say would've been more prevalent in the PT era as the Jedi are in the height of their respective power. I don't have an issue with the way they used the force in those films. It seems logical they would use it more often as they have been throughly trained by other more senior Jedi such as Yoda or Mace Windu. The force users such as Luke or Rey had little training in comparison so they may have been more reluctant to use it.

Also it came down to directing style in the trilogies. George was more limited with what he could do back in the OT. By the time he had the technology for the PT ...he went all out with it...(It's so dense...lol). In TFA JJ Abrams & Lawrence Kasden seemed to favor that approach that less better serves the story.

The bigger problem for me with the force was... Midi-chlorians. I feel the concept of the force became demystified with introduction of Midi-chlorians. Why would the Jedi need to measure Anakin's blood for midi-chlorians? They could use the force which tells them how powerful Anakin was at the time. Using science to prove how powerful one is in the force contradicts what was previously established in the OT. This takes all the magical qualities of the force and adds an almost scientific explanation of it. The concept of midi-chlorians reminds me of the X-men who are genetically altered humans at birth. Really lame explanation of the force IMO.

 

If the Force does have a will, as The Force Awakens suggests, I think it's a fairly callous one. Why else would allow this endless cycle of Jedi and Sith killing each other? Not to mention all the hundreds of millions of non-Force Users that die because they got caught up in the middle of this blood feud between Sith and Jedi?

If Finn isn't Force Sensitive, I'm hoping for a conversation like this between him and another non-Force User: "Guys like you and me [Non-Force Sensitives], we end up dead, doesn't really mean anything, or we happen to live through it, that doesn't really mean anything either."

#Kreiadidnothingwrong2016

 

It is interesting how ideas of the Force have been expanded and continuously mysterious throughout the saga.

It is often said, among Jedi, "the will of the Force." Qui-Gon Jinn, who focused especially on the Living force, was known to say this, especially with regards to Anakin and the Prophecy of the One.

As Obi-Wan Kenobi (and Yoda) explain the Force to Luke in the Original Trilogy, it is described as "an energy field created by all living things."

In our studies of nature there are organisms and these can give rise to superorganisms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superorganism), which I think has interesting implications when considering (from our Earthly perspective) the "will of the Force."

There is also the related phenomena of "swarm behavior" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_behaviour), as with the starlings and their "murmurations":
http://www.wired.com/2011/11/starling-flock/

What's interesting about this concept is that "will" could be informed by the organisms. So the "Force" can exert a will, perhaps a collective will based on all the "input" it receives from life, and it could be both a symbiotic phenomenon between "willers" and the "willed" and an emergent property (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence) of life itself.

Given the chaos rampant era to era in the Star Wars galaxy, we could imagine the Force being pushed, shaped, twisted, contracted, or expanded while also pushing, shaping, twisting, contracting, or expanding across time.

After Return of the Jedi, it did seem to enjoy a brief period of rest, until Luke's Jedi Order, Snoke, Ben, The Knights of Ren, and the First Order appeared.

When Yoda said, "Always in motion is the future," I can imagine this sort of playing out like this, an incessant dynamic, especially in the presence of Force-users who interact with that mystical energy directly, especially when such interactions are conducted forcefully and unnaturally among Sith and Dark Side users.

For me, the Force continues to be as an incredible metaphor as it is a physical force, something with physical and yet metaphysical/spiritual interpretive potential.

JediMasterRobert

 

According to George Lucas, the Force is inherently Light Side and so should the will of the Force.

 

Correct, this concept has been around since the OT.

Lucas' words are very much still canon. Everything he wrote down, so long as it doesn't contradict already established material is canon, fullstop. It's been said many times Lucas canon is immovable, all new material has to fit around it.

Uhh, I very much dislike that line of dialogue