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SPECULATION The Great Mystery Revealed

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The Force Awakens and the new external canon sources set up a great many mysteries for the Sequel Trilogy:

    Who are Rey's parents? Why is Luke on Ahch-To? What is it that Palpatine found on Jakku? Who is Snoke? How does Maz Kanata have Luke's saber? And so on...

    I believe that these mysteries, along with the Force-Back tie together and reveal what this trilogy is about.
    For many months I have wondered about why the map to Luke was on Jakku, what Lor San Tekka is doing there and why did Rey end up there? Of course, Snoke's origins have also been a source of great debate!

    Upon reading extracts from Aftermath: Life Debt, it seems clear that Jakku will indeed be playing a significant part in this trilogy. And one particular extract made me very curious indeed. It was about a site that Palpatine was excavating of which he described to Gallis Rax, a local boy who becomes an advisor to Palpatine, as being significant 1000yrs ago and it will become significant again.

    This got me thinking - what happened 1000 yrs ago that was significant? And something came to me - in The Phantom Menace we are told that the Sith were thought to have been extinct for a millennium. And we also know that Lucas wrote a backstory about Darth Bane, the last surviving Sith who formed the Rule of Two and gave rise to the New Sith. It would seem then that this event along with whatever happened on Jakku, occurred together around 1000 yrs ago.

    Going back to one of the mysteries of this trilogy, we are all wondering why Luke ended up at the first Jedi temple. Why did he go into exile? Why go there? Why abandon everyone? This also ties into wondering how Kylo Ren managed to destroy Luke's Jedi - where was Luke, the master Jedi?

    So here is my theory:

    What if the site on Jakku is the grounds for The First Sith Temple? After the Sith destroyed each other they left Moraband (Sith home-world). What if Bane founded a new temple to place within the knowledge, artefacts and weapons of the old Sith Order? We are informed that Jakku was once a living planet but at some point died. What if this is what caused that change? The presence of the Dark Side? Of whatever is buried there?

    Now to go further with this - Palpatine obviously placed great significance in this site. Yet if it contained some great power or knowledge it isn't something he called upon in the old trilogy. He clearly had a plan and built on the site a research facility. Some even say a weapons facility was built. But what could be more powerful that the Death Star's (or indeed Star Killer base)? Considering Palpatine's motivations I would imagine that his next step towards ultimate power was to monopolise the Force itself. "The ability to destory a planet...". (I also think Snoke's ultimate goal is to not have any rivals at all - once he has got what he wants from Ren he will destroy him. Perhaps taking his power first?). Palpatine would invariably wish to not just conquer death but the Force itself. Be a true God. And perhaps whatever was on Jakku held this secret?

    Considering how Jakku went from a living to dead planet I am wondering whether whatever it was that was on Jakku, in some way, somehow, absorbed The Force itself? Perhaps Star Killer base was a metaphor for this, a precursor - based on the same idea but paled in comparison to the danger that this Force absorbing device/artefact/weapon promised. It was a weapon of the old Sith order, hidden away by Bane.

    Now, back to Luke. Where was he when his Jedi were attacked? Why didn't he foresee it and stop it? Why go off to the First Jedi Temple? I am wondering if Luke fell victim to this Force weapon and lost his power (it seems that such ideas could be part of the new canon when considering the inclusion of Force trees etc in the new comics). Surely Luke could've stopped Ren and friends? But not if he had lost his power? My theory is that after the Battle of Jakku, this device was taken (and facility destroyed) and brought to the Unknown Regions where the FO found Snoke. Some time later, Luke and Lor San Tekka were seeking these ancient artefacts and Luke, somehow was attacked with this weapon. He lost his power. But perhaps managed to damage Snoke in the process? Or Snoke had already been damaged by taking the absorbed power which in turn corrupted him?

    Anyway, Luke got away but during this time Ren destroyed Luke's Jedi Order. Luke was vulnerable but he had to survive. He was the last Jedi - powerful or not he still had the knowledge of the Jedi. And during Luke's previous travels with San Tekka (where they too had learned about this ancient Sith weapon) they also learned that the first Jedi had known of it and that within the First Jedi Temple lay the secret to defeating it (and perhaps restoring ones power). Also keep in mind how Snoke fears Luke returning - is this because of the knowledge Luke can bring back from the First Jedi temple? So Luke went in search of Ahch-To. Lor San Tekka knew what had happened to Luke but had no clue of what to do. So he retired to Jakku, the point of origin of this device and when there found the map to Ahch-To. He kept it safe until the time was right.

    Meanwhile, during this time Rey was on Jakku. She was born 10 years after the Battle of Jakku. After the Force absorbing device had been hastily taken by the retreating Imperial Forces. I'm wondering whether Rey's parents were connected in some way to the Imperial base and they found the map to Ahch-To. They perhaps defected after learning what was there and how it would be used. They perhaps also felt betrayed by being abandoned. Rey's parents were perhaps the ones who originally told Luke and San Tekka about the secret place/weapon and erased the whereabout of Ahch-To and the First Temple (the only means of defeating the weapon) from the archives. Now, it's impossible to be exact here as this is all speculation but I think that perhaps Rey's mum originally went to find Luke and tell him about what was there and perhaps give him a copy of the map. She never returned. Then a few years later Rey's father goes in search for his wife or even Luke - leaving Rey on Jakku? As a side note: in Rey's scavenger guide, Rey speaks of "her people" rather than "family". In some old leaks it was said that Rey's parents were in the clan that we see in the flashback being defeated by the KoR - perhaps this ties in? Perhaps this Rey is seeing something from the perspective of "her people" or "family"?

    Finally - Rey, Aka Mary Sue. What if Rey's power comes from that which was absorbed by this ultimate Sith weapon? What if being exposed either whilst in her mothers womb or later when she resided on the Badlands (in an AT-AT which was conveniently close to the area where this Imperial base was), gave Rey her immense power? There is a single flower growing inside the At-AT that gives Rey hope that she can survive. But perhaps this flower signifies the returning of the power that was once being taken by the Sith weapon?

    As for the saber - here's another theory for you:

    The boy spoken of in the Force Back in the novel wasn't Kylo Ren but rather Gallius Rax. He retrieved Luke's saber. Later this weapon fell into the hands of the KoR who in turn lost it to Maz Kanata. Then the Force draws Rey to the saber so she will in turn take it to Luke - the last hope for the galaxy...

    A lot of info. Massive speculation. But I thought it worth a share!
     
    #1 master_shaitan, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
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  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    I do like your ideas here a lot and especially the idea about the sith weapon used against Luke. It would explain a lot, why he had to leave, why he could not help Han and all the others etc. Yeah, it even explains Rey's special powers. Hmmm, I really like it. :)
     
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Timeline:

    1000yrs ago - Bane builds First Sith Temple. Hides within it secret Sith super weapon.
    During the OT - Palpatine excavates the site and builds research facility.
    1yr After ROTJ - Battle of Jakku. Destruction of base. Imperials take weapon.
    10yrs after Battle of Jakku - Rey is born.
    10-15 yrs after Battle of Jakku - Rey's mothers seeks out Luke Skywalker and informs him of the Sith Temple site and gives him map to Ahch-To.
    15yrs after Battle of Jakku - Rey's father goes in search of his wife. Never returns.
    7 years before TFA - Luke finds Snoke/Sith weapon but is badly damaged by it. Flees to Ahch-To. Kylo Ren destroys Luke's order. Lor San Tekka retires to Jakku and finds map to Ahch-To at some point.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2016 ---
    Something else to add:

    Snoke resides in a mobile command centre. What if he travels around the galaxy absorbing Force power? Regaining his strength? Perhaps he was badly injured by Luke or already injured. Then he had to make a deal with the devil - turn to the Dark Side and uses this weapon to live? He literally seeks out Force users and places strong with the Force and absorbs the power!

    "If what you say about this girl is true, bring her to me!".
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---
    Remember in AOTC and ROTS, Yoda essentially absorbs the Force power of Dooku and Sidious. He contains it and fires it back.
    What if Yoda learned of this ancient technique? It's similar to what I am thinking Bane could've kept in the First Sith Temple.
    The FO took this knowledge and created a weapon (much like the Star Killer base in some ways).
    What I am getting at is that Force absorption isn't a crazy idea and has in some way been seen in the films already.
     
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  4. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebelscum

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    Interesting idea about the boy mentioned in the novelization of The Force Awakens being Gallius Rax instead of Ben Solo.

    In Rey's Force-back vision, she is manifest in Cloud City. In a hallway there are two figures locked in combat--these two would be Luke and Vader during their duel in the Empire Strikes Back. Then someone speaks her name and she responds, "Hello?" A boy appears at the end of the hallway. However, as she approaches him, the walls around her turn over, she falls, and then she becomes manifest in another location outside where it rains.

    This boy could very well be invading her Force-back vision...as in he is able to tap into it from another time and another place. Think of the Force as the bulk, a brane where time is irrelevant and space is multi-dimensional. I will have to share sometime a diagram I made of the Force, and how one could apply to it physics and general relativity. Think of the bulk in Christopher Nolan's Interstellar: the father communicates to his daughter via gravitational waves.

    If the boy mentioned in the novelization of The Force Awakens is Gallius Rax--though he could very well be anyone--then there would be ample room for the sequels to mature. It would also be an interesting strategy to connect all three Star Wars Trilogies, since Gallius Rax was born 3-4 years before The Phantom Menace.
     
    #4 Imperial Purple, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I believe originally the Force back was to show the duel between Luke and Vader. Might be a cool idea to show this boy observing the events. It was originally also "leaked" that the saber would crash land on Jakku. I'm not sure how this would've ever happened by considering Rax's connection, it is perhaps an idea that Rax brought the saber there or lost it there during the Battle of Jakku.

    Fascinating idea re: multi-dimensional space and the Force. It's all possible within the Force.
     
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  6. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    you may be onto something and "7 years before TFA - Luke finds Snoke/Sith weapon but is badly damaged by it." could maybe the incident when Leia tried to contact Luke&Ben, but it was interrupted by radiation in 'Bloodline' novel. ;)

    I don't think force absorption is out of the game at all and it was a technique in KOTR/Jedi knight game + it was mentioned in early Lucas scripts as a way dark siders treated captured Jedi.
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Is this in Bloodline? Thanks for the info ;)
     
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  8. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    yep, it was in Bloodline. ;)
     
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  9. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    From Bloodline. Thanks for the heads up @nightangel:

    "Luke’s last message to her had been a while ago, and badly corrupted by radiation interference; wherever they were in the galaxy, they were cut off from communication for the time being".
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2016 ---
    Luke sure seemed to be very interested in finding Jedi lore. To the point that he seems to be abandoning his responsibilities to Ben and the other students:

    "Skywalker had been so long away on his strange quest for the lore of the Jedi that he no longer had much influence outside his own acolytes. He was a figure of myth more than one of flesh and blood".

    Was he hell bent on finding this lore/First Jedi Temple because of what had been taken by the FO from Jakku?
     
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  10. arjank

    arjank Clone Commander

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    Interesting.
    I have thought for some time that the "force" is what happens on the quantum level, a force user is able to manipulate subatomic physical events. Kylo Ren stopping a blaster bold would be a good example of this.
     
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  11. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    I wonder if Han&Leia even spoke to Luke after the temple massacre (scene of R2 saying good bye to Luke). Han probably mentioned the last thing Luke did (searching the first Jedi temple) before this event happened. Maybe they don't even know that Luke was damaged by such a weapon for example.
     
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  12. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Also Maz Kanata is still alive.
    Why did JJ specifically make Maz over a thousand years old?

    If he wanted just a wise old sage type, he could have just made her an arbitrary age number like 400 or 600 years old.

    Why does he specifically have her over a thousand years (even older than Yoda)?

    Maybe it's to recall the events in your detailed theory.
     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'd forgotten about Maz...
    Her own castle was build on top of a battle ground between the Jedi and Sith was it not? And she has a bust of a former Jedi. It's likely that she knows a great deal and it also appears that she knew Luke. Luke and Lor San Tekka may even have spoken to her about this place on Jakku. I just feel that they need to tie all these questions together in one move - and this strikes me as a means of doing that.
     
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  14. ITG

    ITG Rebel Official

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    But....Plagueis...confirmed...? :mad:
     
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  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I'd wonder if it's even possible to absorb midichlorians.
     
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  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Well, there was once a wise man who knew how to manipulate midichlorians...create life...cheat death. Force absorption wouldn't be a big deal for him or someone who discovered his teachings, would it?

    ;)
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2016 ---
    And there are these Force tree's mentioned in those canon comics which can imbue people with the Force, I believe...
     
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  17. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I thought those trees merely enhance your force potential...also Yoda didn't seem to directly absorb the force otherwise lightning would literally be inside Dooku/Yoda's body right
    ?
     
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Don't know about the trees.
    Point is, Yoda harnessed the Force and contained it. Perhaps the Sith of old could go further and then Palpatine developed a weapon that could harness such power.
     
  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Maybe the kyber crystals helped .
     
  20. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'm wondering if it is indeed some kind of Kiber Crystal that was found in the first Sith Temple on Jakku.
    I'm wondering if the Sith originally found a way to harness its power for evil.
    I'm imagining a scene like the one from Superman II when Supes relinquishes his power or how he is weakened by Kyptonite!
     
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