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SPECULATION The Great Mystery Revealed

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I don't remember where but I read something in the old-EU that the reason Palpatine was so powerful is because he wore a kyber crystal around his neck to enhance his force ability.
     
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  2. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebel Commander

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    The idea of “Force absorption” sounds similar to the idea of “essence transfer” that is written about in James Luceno’s Darth Plagueis [Legends].

    Darth Tenebrous, Plagueis’ master, mastered essence transfer, which is Sith magic and sorcery. In a way this is the Sith version of a Jedi’s Force Ghost. Through essence transfer, though, dark side users can only transfer into objects of the corporeal world....reality…the Physical and Living Force. They cannot move or transfer into the Cosmic Force as Jedi Force Ghosts can. Furthermore, Darth Plagueis mastered cheating death by manipulating midi-chlorians (so as not to disrupt the balance of the Force). The Force prevents midi-chlorian tampering for personal gain. And interesting quote from the non-canonical novel:

    Research had long ago established that blood transfusion from Force-sensitive individuals did not confer Force powers to recipients, though blood with a high midi-chlorian count could grant temporary strength and resiliency. Experiments in absolute transfusion had gone horribly awry for recipients, suggesting to some that the Force exacted a toll on those who attempted to tamper with it. An individual's midi-chlorians seemed to know to whom they belonged and become unresponsive outside their dedicated vessel. While midi-chlorians appeared to resist manipulation of a sort that might imperil the balance of the Force, they remained passive, even compliant, in the case of a weak-willed being manipulated by one who was strong in the Force.

    And an interesting quote on the implications of manipulating the Force from James Luceno’s Tarkin [Canon]:

    And [Darth Sidious] would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many of the Sith Masters before him had sought: the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort.

    As for the Force Tree written about in the Shattered Empire comics, they might function like magnets. They could draw Force power close to them in high concentration. Do they radiate that power? Repel? Attract? Like the blood transfusions mentioned by Luceno, the trees may offer temporary Force abilities, but probably not permanent. Poe Dameron, who grew up around one of the trees, exhibited no apparent Force abilities in The Force Awakens.
     
    #22 Imperial Purple, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
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  3. Jedihopper

    Jedihopper Rebel General

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    One thought I've always had - why did LST wait so long to contact the Republic with the map?

    Or did he? If the opening crawl is taken literally, he'd just recently found it and contacted Leia about it, so she sent Poe...

    But if that's the case, and he didn't have the map for all his time on Jakku...then why was he there?

    Ordered by Luke to watch his baby gurl? :D:D:D
     
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  4. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    It doesn't seem like he's had the map very long and he's only recently retired so it seems like he hasn't been on Jakku for long.
     
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I think he retired there after Kylo went bad (considering their exchange). He then had 7 years to find the map.
     
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  6. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    Maybe the Crystal is in Rey's staff.
     
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  7. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    a good point. :D
     
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  8. arjank

    arjank Clone Commander

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    yep, after the "event" LST went to Jakku.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    Btw. do we have an explanation on why (and how) the map was split in two parts?

    Another thing, (lets use some logic here), LST has the missing piece right? Luke wanted to find the first Jedi Temple right? So Luke needed that map piece to get to Ahch-to, this means the map piece was in possession of Luke. So how did LST get the map, simple, Luke gave it to him before he went to Ahch-to. After the "academy attack" Luke went to Ahch-to and LST to Jakku. the map piece is therefore on Jakku and so is Rey.....
     
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  9. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    And so considering the huge coincidence it would be for LST to have retired to the exact place where the map to Ahch-To was along with this "significant" site and of course Rey, it strikes me that something like what I have put forward must have happened.

    Both Luke and Tekka have been on quests to find missing Jedi lore. When they are on this quest Rey's "people" go missing and leave her on Jakku.
    So either her parents were always on Jakku and came across this significant site and found something along with the map OR they were perhaps part of this "Clan", Perhaps this clan was part of the Church of the Force. And they went to Jakku and discovered the secrets there along with the map. They had to leave quickly or whatever. Either way, some information gets to Luke regarding whatever was on Jakku and he goes off to confront Snoke but never returns. Tekka, knowing that this information originated from Jakku goes there and eventually finds the map.
     
  10. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    but still the biggest question stays, why did Luke just leave? I mean he could have searched the temple and return from time to time to help his sister or at least keep the contact etc. I really hope we will get a fitting answer to this.
     
  11. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Two possibilities. In the novel it explains that old Jedi sites were used as sanctuaries for Jedi fleeing the Empire. So I once wondered whether someone like Kenobi, using his experience of things being erased from the PT era, found his way into the Empire's archives and deleted part of the map. This could make for an interesting Kenobi film! However, I think it more likely that people working within the Imperial Research facility discovered Ahch-To but that someone who defected (I propose one of Rey's folks) knew of its significance, deleted the important part and took the rest.

    I don't think so. LST is said to discover the map on Ahch-To in the opening crawl.
    I believe that whoever got hold of that original map got it to Luke and he alone had it.

    In my timeline of events, I think that this person who had the map left Jakku with it and at some time after the Jedi massacre managed to get it to Luke.
    Or Luke simply managed to locate the planet without the map.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    Exactly. And my view is that he must've lost his strength or at least a good deal of it.
    There is no way Luke would stand idly by and allow the possibility of his sister, best friend and maybe even daughter die at the hands of the KoR, Snoke and FO.
    Let alone the fact that he would be abandoning the galaxy. "The galaxy depends on us", as Solo said - surely Luke would feel that too?
    No, for me it makes sense that he was in hiding because he had to protect his knowledge and try and regain his power on Ahch-To (the Force tree?) or wait for the future generation of Jedi to find him.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016 ---
    The other thing with Luke is that if he has all his power it's kind of dull.
    You can see why they left him out of TFA - because he would dominate every scene.
    Well, it's the same with his Force power. No one could really challenge him.
    So by taking away his power it makes the story interesting. It puts the onus back on Rey.
     
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  12. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    Interesting is also this dream or nightmare of Leia in Life Debt novel:

    "Phantasms pursue her. She dreams of Han, dead in the snow. She dreams of poor Chewie in a cage somewhere. She dreams of herself on a table, dying as her child—no, children—are born. Then comes a vision of Luke, lost among the stars, searching for something and failing, never returning. She dreams of being lost in a forest, and then of being lost inside the Death Star—she and Luke and Han are fleeing stormtroopers, trying desperately to get back to the Falcon after Obi-Wan powers down the tractor beam controls, but now she knows the dread truth: He failed, he died, and the ship is still anchored there, and even if they could find their way out of the tangle of passages, they’ll never escape…"
     
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  13. arjank

    arjank Clone Commander

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    It is said that R2 has the rest of the map which he downloaded from the Empire archives when he plugged into the first death star, so the map was already fragmented back then.....
     
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  14. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Good point. So it must be that a Jedi or someone loyal to them (Church of the Force) erased it during the time of the Empire. Perhaps soon after Order 66?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    I wonder when Jyn and Co steal the Death Star plans if they take more information with them?
    I did propose once that Jyn and Cassius find information about Jakku, another more powerful superweapon and Ahch-To and go to jakku and infiltrate the facility there...

    Of course, I was also alluding to them being Rey's parents which LFL people seem to wish to debunk.
     
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  15. arjank

    arjank Clone Commander

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    The opening crawl indeed states that, but can't it just be that LST kept it away all the time and give it to the right people when the time is right?
    Also, Luke and LST did search for a lot of lore together so it wouldn't surprise me if they have found the missing piece together. Maybe they already had the piece in possession before the "event" so Luke went to Ahch-to directly afterwards. We know that Han says "Luke went searching for the first Jedi Temple" but does he know what really happened?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    Good point, maybe we see something like that happening in Rogue One, that would be interesting and tie the whole story together.
     
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  16. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    I do agree with this, despite that this is a kind of 'kryptonite' for Luke. Because what chances do you have to create some tension when you have a superpowerful Luke, who can destroy every enemy. It would also be interesting to see a Luke struggling with a lack of power and maybe he will get his power back after destroying this weapon and defeating Snoke.
     
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I think it will be messy if Tekka didn't discover it on Jakku - it would make the crawl incorrect and an explanation would be needed for why he didn't get it to Leia sooner. Tekka knows the importance of the Jedi after all.

    Tekka had to go and retire on Jakku for a reason. For me it has to be because it was the only link he had to finding Luke.
    So I am wondering whether he and Luke discovered that perhaps a member of the Church of the Force or indeed Kenobi once took the map to Ahch-To and that then this led Tekka to Jakku?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    It could be that he begins to regain his power slowly after Rey "awakened" the Force? So he's starting to get stronger. He is starting to be able to see again. Perhaps at the end of TFA he has begun to see what has been going on and foresee's Rey coming to him? But he is still weak. But has the knowledge to teach Rey.
     
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  18. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    Yep, it would even explain the titel of the movie, because after this event (using the force weapon against Luke, the force itself became weak or corrupted, maybe even for the darksiders). And in TFA the force beginns to awaken.
     
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  19. arjank

    arjank Clone Commander

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    Yes, why did he go to Jakku.
    All we know is LST was a follower of the Church-of-the-Force, and the small settlement on Jakku was also inhabited by CotF followers.
    There are to many "coïncidences" going on regarding Jakku:
    • Rey is on Jakku
    • LST is on Jakku
    • Falcon is on Jakku
    • Emperial research facility was on Jakku
    • Luke's severed hand + saber was going to land on Jakku (cut out during editing)
    Forgot something?
     
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  20. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The map is on Jakku.
    The facility which you mention is also connected to this significant spot excavated by Palpatine.

    Jakku was once a living planet but died somewhat.
    Jakku in Japanese translates to evil...
     
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