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The Knights of Ren = Created for a book and/or standalone-film?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Mr Hux, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

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    We barely saw them in TFA where they were mentioned once. In TLJ, they were indirectly mentioned once but that was it. Am I the only one who believe that these mysterious warriors were created solely to hype a book and/or standalone movie in the future? The fans really want to know more about them and that may explain why Disney refuse to tell us anything about them, just like with Snoke. Disney want to make money on KoR and thats why they was created. And no, JJ was not free to do whatever he wanted to do.
     
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  2. Based_Luke_Skywalker

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    Rian set it back up for Abrams to do another flashback with them in ep IX I think. There was a line by Luke saying that Kylo took some of his students and disappeared. Maybe we will see them destroying the Jedi temple via a flashback from Abrams.
     
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  3. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I disagree, the idea that they were created to hype a book or movie implies that they were planning ahead. I think it's pretty clear by now that there is no planning ahead in this sequel trilogy, they are just improvising and making up things as they go.
     
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  4. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    There's no doubt they didn't plan it all out, but it's not that different than the way George did things. He didn't have all the details worked out. It wasn't until after ANH was a hit that he started to get the broad strokes worked out. Leia being Luke's sister wasn't planned until ROTJ, thus the infamous "kiss" in ESB. Vader wasn't Luke's father when writing ANH. People forget this. The vast majority of the prequels re-interpreted the OT, in many cases incorrectly. Crazy decisions like Yoda and Artoo going to Dagobah together in The Clone Wars series, which is canon. Even though we know Artoo never had his memory erased somehow forgot Yoda and Dagobah? He also forgot Obi-Wan?

    The Knights of Ren are a throwaway line to give some context to Kylo's name. Since there are no Darth pre-fixes, JJ attempted to explain the Ren suffix for Kylo. What he forgot is that in the Star Wars fandom, every single mysterious reference will need a backstory or we will have nothing to talk about on message boards like this.

    Personally, I could care less about these guys. If it's them in the flashback, which isn't confirmed, then they just look like a bunch of thugs.
     
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  5. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

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    You are wrong. It has been confirmed that the flashback showed us KoR.
     
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  6. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Ok great. it changes nothing I said.
     
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  7. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

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    The OT was to a certain extent thought-out, the ST isnt thought-out at all.
     
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  8. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    SWNN reported 2 years ago that JJ stated that if he were to get a stand-alone....oh screw it...anthology film that he'd like to explore the KoR. I can't help but think that he has some sequences in mind and now that he's got 9, unexpectedly, and it's the 3rd film where action will be at the forefront, that we should see some KoR.
     
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  9. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    I think they were created to give Kylo a fancy title and to add some more mystery to the character. But everyone became interested in them, so the best way to use them now is by making them Kylo's guards, replacing Snoke's praetorian guards. They're supposed to be very skilled and devoted fighters, so they should do great in that position. When I first saw Snoke's guards I was disappointed because they looked kinda silly (although they looked good in the movie), and wondered why they didn't use the Knights of Ren instead, since they look much more intimidating. But after TLJ, the choice makes perfect sense.
     
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  10. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    We know that each director asked the previous one for some changes, Rian asked JJ for Rey and Chewie to bring R2 to Ach-To instead of BB-8. I wonder if JJ asked Rian for that Luke's line about his students Kylo took with him. I know we learned about Trevorrow's leaving in September when the movie was already locked, but I think the decision was made much earlier - Trevorrow gave Lucasfilm his draft before Carrie died and then had months to come up with a solution and couldn't.

    I think JJ will bring them back as Kylo's personal guard and show that some of them have Force powers. If we get time skip, that also gives Rey time to find others like her. We may yet get to see big lightsaber on lightsaber fight in EPIX, - with Kylo burning the past, he is not going to stick to one master/one apprentice rule.

    At least I hope so, because it would be EPIC.
     
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  11. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Why would they plan out something like the KOR? They aren't in any way an essential part of the story. It's much less significant than Luke and Leia being siblings in the OT, yet that wasn't planned in advance either.
     
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  12. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

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    KoR is a completely pointless group in the ST so far, planned or not. So why are they in there? My speculation is that they will be portrayed in a book or a standalone-film in the future.
     
  13. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I firmly believe it's to give weight to Kylo and his name. It enables Snoke to say "even you, Master of the Knights of Ren, have never faced such a test". It's there only to show context and provide a reasoning behind Ben Solo taking the name Kylo Ren. It shows he was the "master" of some "Knights" that weren't Jedi, so he must be pretty powerful. In the flashback it shows the contrast of Kylo, the only one with a light saber, and the others. Kylo clearly stands out since the others don't have a bright red saber, making him seem more powerful. There purely serve the story. If Snoke said, "even you Master of Darkness have never faced such a test" it wouldn't be as powerful or add the same mystery behind Kylo, his name, and his past.
     
  14. A Concerned Fan

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    I think the KoR are all dead. Probably killed by Luke or Kylo at some point before TFA. I could be wrong though.
     
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  15. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    The reason they were created was to show that Kylo had a high enough position in the First Order to command his own spec-ops team.
     
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  16. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Didn't Bail Organa order to erase R2 memory in ROTS. I could be mistaken though.
     
  17. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    No just Threepio. I think R2 laughed at him though.
     
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  18. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I think there's plenty of reason to reach such a conclusion =)

    I know not everything can or has to be explained. Mystery, justly applied, can add interpretive possibilities to stories and leave room for new complemental storylines.

    Rian actually mentioned Plagueis with regards to Snoke, how, even if he was revealed to Plagueis (which Rian immediately indicated not necessarily that Snoke really was) it would have meant nothing to Rey and slowed down the story.

    Considering this as a storyteller, I don't really buy that explanation: one very easy way to do this could have been to have Luke briefly impart Snoke's background story to Rey so she would be aware of what she was really up against.

    Building up mystery and then walking away for it, deliberately leaving it undefined in-film, and then having "fill-in" stories later fleshing out chronologies in comics, novels, and animated series like Rebels, all help to substantiate future film/book/comic hyping criticism.

    On the one hand, it's bound to happen, but, if it's continuous, it can be construed as unnecessarily manipulative of the fandom, requiring them to buy into the secondary market, the new "Extended Universe" as some have called it, or at least the new visual dictionaries, to learn some of the finer details.

    Some of that's fun, a nice part of the natural experience of deeper fandom, with the lesser points of information, but I believe key characters are often most effective when round not "flat," as E.M. Forster famously described in his classic Aspects of the Novel.

    Snoke was mostly flat, I sensed, so far, relying much on image/sensory information (emaciation, ominous lighting/music) rather than actual character development to establish his darkness. Kylo and Hux's deference to the (now curiously) titled "Supreme Leader" also helped Snoke to seem ominous. TLJ built on that visually, momentarily, with the levitation bit, but things quickly turned.

    The Knights of Ren could appear in IX. JJ is known to find them very interesting. They could spice things up in IX or could be revealed to have been long gone.

    Right now, if a KOR comic appeared, I would be interested, but I think they would have loomed larger in-saga on the big screen.

    Perhaps they're not that important.

    Discerning which things / persons / events could be important, particularly when speculating, can be fun, but we have to be aware, using Rogue One and now TLJ as recent examples of buying into too extended and complicated speculations.

    The more complicated the speculation, the likelier it's not going to happen, regardless of whatever information/misinformation we garner from prior episodes, trailers, comics, rumors, and so on.

    I think the LucasFilm Story Group and the Disney marketing department should always be mindful of the prospect of leading fans along too far. Deliberate mysteries and misdirection can only work to certain advantages for certain periods of time. Eventually fans might not appreciate being tricked time and again, to the very jaded point of expecting that to be part of the process.

    The infamous "mystery box" does not have infinite depth. It always risks being relegated to a gimmick, and not a warmly regarded one. Star Wars is far more than "No, I am your father" and "this is not going to go the way you think." Things don't have to hinge upon major character reveals, deliberately deleted details, or predictable unpredictability.

    At times it's almost easy to forget that all of this experience, as fans, actually begins and ends with us: from our greatest preferences and expectations to our subjective letdowns, which we've established or allowed ourselves to believe, first out of fun or curiosity and then, later, out of passion or, afterwards, a form of denial or rejection.

    And there is an applicable saying, which I'll paraphrase: "Fool us once, shame on you; fool us twice, shame on us."

    We have more power over the story than we realize.

    Remember Sarah's epiphany from Labyrinth: "You have no power over me."

    Yoda would be quick to remind us:

    "Control. Control. We must learn control." =)

    (yoda ghost)
     
    #18 JediMasterRobert, Dec 28, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  19. Nick Skywalker

    Nick Skywalker Rebelscum

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    I started reading your post and was thinking of giving you a like and the thread a good rating because I found the topic interesting, but then I came to the end of your post.

    Why? Why do you end an OP like this? You’ve got an interesting post going and then you destroy it in yet another rage tantrum. I get that your hurt and that’s sad but how are we gonna have a creative discussion when you start off by stating baseless accusations as facts when you must know they are not?
     
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  20. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I think they will have a significant place in Kylo Ren's future. The fact that some of the old Jedi students left with Ben I think is an obvious hint where they came from.

    No need for a flashback. They will be back from whatever missions elsewhere they are on in TFA/TLJ (given that TLJ told us that the 1st Order has full control someone is enforcing that in the aftermath of the Hosnian disaster).

    What remains is whether the will be more like elite SS types or if they will take on roles in relation to Kylo like The Hand of the Supreme Leader and so on (similar to the "One Sith" from Dark Horse stories).
     
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