1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Jedi MD, Dec 21, 2019.

?

TLJ vs TROS

  1. Liked TLJ and liked TROS

    30 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Liked TLJ and disliked TROS

    12 vote(s)
    16.0%
  3. Disliked TLJ and liked TROS

    13 vote(s)
    17.3%
  4. Disliked TLJ and disliked TROS

    8 vote(s)
    10.7%
  5. Liked TLJ and partially liked TROS

    11 vote(s)
    14.7%
  6. Disliked TLJ and partially liked TROS

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  1. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    8,642
    Credits:
    3,320
    Ratings:
    +3,832 / 28 / -4
    Didn't Paltptine wanted Rey to be dead towards the beginning of the TROS? I don't see any contradictions here from TLJ, the movie even futher cemented that her parents were a nobody.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Cute Cute x 1
  2. teline

    teline True Biscuit

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Posts:
    577
    Likes Received:
    6,431
    Trophy Points:
    16,617
    Credits:
    9,862
    Ratings:
    +8,966 / 0 / -0
    The answer is literally within the same post.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Cute Cute x 1
  3. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    8,642
    Credits:
    3,320
    Ratings:
    +3,832 / 28 / -4
    Dude The emperor literally said it at the beginning of the movie. Rewatch the film

    Emperor Palpatine: "The might of the Final Order will soon be ready. It will be yours if you do as I ask. Kill the girl. End the Jedi. And become what your grandfather, Vader, could not. You will rule all the galaxies as the new emperor. But beware, she is not who you think she is."

    If he contradicted himself in TLJ, he contradicted him in this film as well. So no TLJ wasn't being retconning in this instance. what you said is irrelevant in this case because the person who I was replaying too wasn't referring to that quote.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  4. teline

    teline True Biscuit

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Posts:
    577
    Likes Received:
    6,431
    Trophy Points:
    16,617
    Credits:
    9,862
    Ratings:
    +8,966 / 0 / -0
    And I'm telling you, dude, that what he says in the beginning of the movie makes no sense to what D-0 tells Finn about Ochi's actual mission being to bring Rey back to Granpalpatine safe. THAT is what contradicts both TLJ and TROS.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    8,642
    Credits:
    3,320
    Ratings:
    +3,832 / 28 / -4
    I'm not disagreeing with you about this. You're picking a fight when there isn't one. In the context of the post, what I said is still true.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    32,667
    Trophy Points:
    157,967
    Credits:
    17,138
    Ratings:
    +35,518 / 72 / -20
    My 2 credits: :)

    The Snoke we saw in TLJ was possibly not a clone, as he could've been the original (the ancient threat that Serkis, for instance, talked about). He might very well have had ambitions of his own and, since we don't know what being a puppet of Palpaltine actually entails, Snoke was perhaps not even aware that he was being controlled (or the extent to which is controlled). He could very well have been doing his own thing with only peripheral influence from Palpy in his head.

    As for Palpatine wanting/not wanting to kill Rey, remember that,
    1) Palpatine lies a lot to manipulate and goad his would-be servants;
    2) He wasn't entirelly up-to-speed on the Rey situation, being unaware that she and Ben formed a Force dyad until they stood there Force bonding before him (causing him to make a change of plans);
    3) Palpy is a man of convoluted, high-stakes plots and deep-reaching contingencies and he might very well have had several scenarios in mind for how he wanted to deal with/use Rey to his end, including,
    a) to kill her (removing the greatest threat to him alive in the galaxy & a beacon of Light to facilitate his own dark machinations);
    b) possessing her (which, IMHO, was always probably a long shot, especialy once Palpy learned just how powerful she was, and in any case he always had Kylo to fall back on there, the Vader Remade);
    c) siphoning her life-force Skeksis style to invigorate his current (cloned?) corpse;
    d) and possibly additional scenarios beside.
    It seems very clear to me that Palpatine is improvicing here.

    I count TLJ as the greatest Star Wars ever made, loving every detail of it, and personally I have no trouble reconciling RoS with TLJ :D


    It is easy to find fault with any movie if one tries to find them. I propose instead that everyone will get a better experience with Star Wars if they apply their brain power to figure out how this could work, rather than trying to make it not. To me, (after two viewings), RoS syncs quite well with TLJ :cool:
     
    #26 Angelman, Dec 24, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  7. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    8,642
    Credits:
    3,320
    Ratings:
    +3,832 / 28 / -4
    That how I felt about the movie when I watch the movie both times. I felt that it expanded TLJ ideas not take them away.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  8. Alamact

    Alamact Rear Admiral
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Posts:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    24,573
    Trophy Points:
    159,227
    Credits:
    16,459
    Ratings:
    +30,948 / 0 / -0
    I partially agree with the sentiment - it is the key reason I don't intent to spend my free time trying to tear this movie down. However, to me, what separates a good script from a bad one, is that you shouldn't force your audience to devote considerable brain power trying to justify how something works in your film - you should force them to devote it trying to find if something doesn't - and hopefully have them come up empty.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Wise Wise x 1
  9. iostream

    iostream Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2019
    Posts:
    99
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    597
    Credits:
    497
    Ratings:
    +382 / 4 / -6
    For instance here are three that come to mind from what I can remember in TROS:

    Palpatine's redemption begins in TPM and culminates in TROS. Think of the overtone of the idea of family as one. Sheev and Rey as one family body: they are Palpatine. Anakin and his offspring are one family body: Skywalker. In TPM Palpatine initiated a series of events that would be bookended by the full redemption of both Palpatine and Skywalker through Rey and Ben. Think of Palpatine as one with two sides: Sheev the dark side and Rey the light side, and that one being redeemed through the light side vanquishing the dark side of the one family body. Episodes 1-6 are the redemption of Skywalker, and episodes 1-9 are the redemption of Palpatine through Skywalker. The Rise of Skywalker is the same as The Redemption of Palpatine (since Palpatine becomes Skywalker in the end).

    TPM is founded on the theme of the symbiotic relationship, which comes to the full in TROS in that Skywalker and Palpatine benefit one another by healing (both literally and spiritually) each other in turn through Rey and Ben. So the concept bookends with the culmination of the symbiotic relationship began in TPM.

    In TPM Skywalker leaves Tatooine(home) to become a Jedi, in TROS Skywalker becomes a Jedi and returns to Tatooine(home).
     
    #29 iostream, Dec 24, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    5,994
    Trophy Points:
    15,567
    Credits:
    7,703
    Ratings:
    +8,722 / 35 / -13
    TROS is meaningless without TLJ...
    Everything in TLJ relies on everything that was set up in TFA, and everything that happens in TROS relies on everything that happens in TLJ.
    TROS also makes everything that happened in TLJ that much more important than it already was.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2019 ---
    Quite.

    In another thread I just wrote that the PT is about loss, OT is about salvation, and ST is about healing.

    Ben and Rey are the PT and OT incarnate, and the ST is entirely about unification of the two.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  11. The Holdo Maneuver

    The Holdo Maneuver Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Posts:
    13
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    127
    Credits:
    200
    Ratings:
    +47 / 2 / -0
    Nice post!
    --- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2021 ---
    How does one like a post? Do I not have enough posts yet for it?
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras MASTER TEA MAKER
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Posts:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    64,258
    Trophy Points:
    171,477
    Credits:
    31,722
    Ratings:
    +68,308 / 13 / -5
    you have to have 30 Posts before you can rate posts & create new threads.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. The Holdo Maneuver

    The Holdo Maneuver Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Posts:
    13
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    127
    Credits:
    200
    Ratings:
    +47 / 2 / -0
    Got it. Thanks!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    628
    Trophy Points:
    3,797
    Credits:
    1,096
    Ratings:
    +803 / 29 / -13
    Palptine did two things 1. He told Ren to kill Rey and he revealed Rey’s true identity to Ren. He knew that Ren (being smitten with Rey) would reveal the truth to her. Rey would freak out and attack Ren. She would be able to kill him either by getting the upper hand on Ren or most likely Ren would allow her to ‘win’ because he’s so deeply in love with her that he can’t bring himself to hurt her. Rey would kill Ren and fly to Exogol in a rage and strike down Palpatine and he would transfer his essence into her body. In the event that Rey dies, Palpatine will just continue to manipulate/torment Ben the way he has been doing since he was a child and rule that way. Rey was Palpatine’s prime plan and Ren was his back up plan. Either way he would win.


    What Palpatine doesn’t know is that Ren has really grown a…spine and won’t be anyone’s dog on a leash and refused to go along with his plan.


    And that deep down Rey does not want to be ruled by her rage/anger and her ability to hurt others. She’s ashamed of it and wants to master it. She refused to strike Palpatine down and only came close to doing it when he tried to blackmail her into saving her friends (as playing on her guilt).
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    3,074
    Likes Received:
    8,026
    Trophy Points:
    87,567
    Credits:
    12,047
    Ratings:
    +10,293 / 195 / -29
    One thing that I remembered now is the Snoke's theme for The Last Jedi soundtrack.

    If you hear this music you won't hear anything new. I mean, there isn't a specific song created for Snoke but a bunch of other songs. You can hear the Chorus from the Opera Spectacle (a nod to Palpatine?), Imperial March (Vader's theme) and Kylo's theme.

    If you analyse by this way probably Palpatine was there as a puppeteer all the time. Even if the idea of bringing back Palpatine was just decided in the last moment during the writing of TROS.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  16. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Posts:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    26,115
    Trophy Points:
    151,117
    Credits:
    14,799
    Ratings:
    +28,883 / 124 / -47
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page