The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker

That part is justifiable, at least to me. When Luke asked who Rey was, he had shut himself off from the Force. He didn't figure out she was a Palpatine (and by proxy why Leia had sent her to him) until after he opened himself up, and by that time things were already out of hand. I'm not disagreeing that it doesn't really work, only stating out it could make sense.
The rest...yeah...

 

Asking Rey who she is isn't the same as saying, "I don't know who you are. Please tell me."

Luke just telling her who she is and what her place is in the story, if he knows, is at odds with what Johnson was saying with episode VIII anyway. It always seemed to me like it was a possibility that, whatever it is, Luke feels, like Yoda and Obi-Wan did with him, that Rey was not ready to be burdened with the truth at that point.

 

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that by the time Luke figured out that Rey was a Palpatine, telling her wouldn't have done her any good because things between them were already soured.
One could even link in Luke's line about things not going the way Rey thinks because he's been in her shoes and can tell how things are going to go down. Like you say, Rey wasn't ready for the knowledge.
That's how I can see Luke's asking of who Rey is and what her deal is fits in with him knowing she's a Palpatine in TROS, because he didn't find out until the very end and piece it together then.
Again, I'm not saying I like this or that it magically makes things better or that it's a perfect fit, only that it does make sense.

 

Always two there are? Where is Palpatines Sith Apprentice? Was neither Ben nor Snoke. Is he out there somewhere?

 

Hated TLJ Loved TROS. Also, the fanbase around the time of TLJ was pretty offensive and arrogant. TROS made me feel vindicated and somewhat celebratory so maybe that's why I see through and enjoyed the incoherent muffled story line in TROS. Anyway, it was a hell of ride that last film and I found it fun. Long live Rey Skywalker

Can we please have Rey's yellow lightsaber in the emojis?

 

So said the Jedi. And they were wrong about a few other things too. I guess their belief that there are only ever two was as well placed as their belief that the Sith were extinct.

 

According to Abrams and Pablo Hidalgo, neither Snoke or Kylo were Siths. But, in any case, Kylo ended up killing his master.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2022 ---

Yes, that would have been much better than what we got.
Here's a few interesting facts...Matt Smith was originally meant to be in the film, but they dropped the plot. All I know is that it had something to do with Palpatine.
I have the Art of TROS....and interestingly there is no concept art for either Kylo Ren's death, or Palpatine's return,
They originally released the Art book - then suddenly withdrew it without any explanation, releasing an edited version (which I have) later.

 

Daisy Ridley always said Ben died and the kiss happened, she told us she was a Kenobi became a nobody then a Palpatine, she told us RJ threw out JJ's treatments for after TFA. I believe her in everything, she has no axed to grind or lie. I wouldn't take what is in or not in an art book as proof as anything, that's just conspiracy. Am sure Daisy is more factual. I also have all the art books and DK's books from the sequel trilogy.

 

She never told us those things.

 

She actually did:

“No. At the beginning there was toying with like an Obi-Wan connection,” Ridley said when asked if she had known Rey’s origins were in the Palpatine family. “There were like different versions, and then it really went to that she was no one. Then it came to Episode IX and J.J. pitched me the film and was like, ‘Oh yeah, Palpatine’s grandaughter.” I was like, ‘Awesome!’ Then two weeks later he was like, ‘Oh, we’re not sure.’ So it kept changing. Even as we were filming I wasn’t sure what the answer was going to be.”

It even kept changing during the shooting of TROS. What a sh!tshow.

 

"toying with an Obi Wan connection" is not the same as telling us she was a Kenobi and "they" changed it.

 

With respect to Daisy, she said a lot of things during promos for the film, and later retracted them, or they turned out to be wrong. Post TFA she said she 'didn't think Rey would be a Jedi' and she also praised some reylo art...then later said she 'couldn't get behind the relationship.' With the latter however, I suspect it was because she got a lot of hate mail, to the degree she eventually came off sm.
All the actors who have been in SW films have to be very careful what they say...I believe the late David Prowse was 'blacklisted' for letting a few details slip.

 

I feel like the fact Palpatine appeared out of seemingly nowhere in TROS threw everything off course?? anyone else?

 

TROS has some good elements, but the story just need more time to be developed. The time they spent on Rey's connection Palpatine probably should have been removed and that time dedicated to Palpatine pulling the strings and his connection to the First Order. Why should I care or Rey care that her dad was a clone of Palps? It's just ham fisted. What's more interesting to me is Kylo Ren being the Supreme Leader who decided to kill old things realize he's been manipulated into all of this by Palpatine. It would have been interesting if Ben Solo was under some kind of spell. It was just difficult on the timeline Disney was pushing to get it right.

 

I agree with you.

Why didn't they allow Rey to be a Skywalker? Considering that this trilogy is supposed to be a part of the Skywalker family saga, why not have one of your main protagonists to be a Skywalker?

 

Exactly.

A lot of people are cool with the Skywalkers bowing out (I'm not one of them, but each to their own), but even Abrams said this was the 'Skywalker saga'. So I honestly can't understand why the last three chapters focused on...someone else.
I loved the character of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. I wanted him to survive, and find happiness. But even if others hated him and preferred Rey, they could have made her a Skywalker by blood, and therefore her being the central protagonist in a trilogy about the Skywalkers would make sense. All that gabble about 'the name survives even if the the family doesn't'... does not make a lot of sense, I'm sorry. The Skywalker saga should have been about the ...Skywalkers.

Rogue 1, the Mandalorian, the Book of Boba Fett....all focus on new characters. If DLF wanted to tell a story of a stormtrooper and a scavenger, they could have made a spin off film or tv series. I'm sorry but I just can't get my head around it. And I will never understand why they also decided to make her a Palpatine.

Talk about rubbing Crait's topsoil in a wound...

 

Not to rehash too many discussions over the years, but I really disliked TLJ. It was not without some merit (gorgeous visuals, strong performance from Mark H., etc.) but fundamentally I thought it simply had too many incredibly dumb moments (saber toss, mama joke, flying Leia, non-sensical Holdo having to control the ship for the Holdo maneuver, the entirety of Canto Bight, etc.). TLJ consistently caused me to roll my eyes and took me out of the movie in ways I hadn’t felt since the first two prequels. TLJ worked on some levels but I just can’t get over how poorly it worked as a middle chapter of a trilogy.

TROS was far from perfect but it clicked more for me. It was at least two movies crammed into one and therefore the pacing was much too frenetic and the return of Palpatine just didn’t feel coherent with the prior two movies. That said, it had enough moments that genuinely moved me in a way only Star Wars can (Kylo first going to Exogol, the death of Leia and Chewie’s reaction, Rey and Kylo’s saber battle on the crashed Death Star and I thought JWs score was amazing). No question I wish JJ had just done the entire trilogy himself.

Overall neither movie lived up to the promise of TFA imo, but I genuinely enjoy going back to re-watch TROS while I find myself skipping around huge chunks of TLJ if it happens to be on TV and I can’t imagine ever singling it out for a full re-watch again.

 

People view the prequels a lot more favorably than they did't 15 years ago. I just rewatched The Last Jedi for the first time in a couple of years and everything from Rey touching hands with Kylo until the end of the film is incredible. To me it's the best stretch in a Star Wars film ever. Maybe for those who disagree time will heal whatever expectation was unfulfilled. Of the 3 sequel films TLJ feels the most Feloni/Lucas of the bunch. JJ leaned more on the nostalgia side like he did with Star Trek. I enjoyed his take on that as well, but the heavy lore stuff happens in TLJ. I just don't think JJ gets that part of Star Wars.

I really wish the last chapter would have focused more on Kylo the leader, but that was pretty much tanked as soon a Palps shows up in the next film.

 

It's been over four years since "The Last Jedi" was released. I still dislike the movie. And one of the aspects of this movie and "The Rise of Skywalker" I truly detest is the arc about Rey and Kylo Ren. Even to this day, that particular arc makes me sick to my stomach. I'm sorry, but that is how I still feel.

 

They did. Kylo Ren.