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The Last Jedi - General Movie Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DarthSnow, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    [​IMG]

    This thread will be the new location for all general discussion of Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi, taking the place of any previous faction-type thread.

    We've all been through the chaos that followed the release of TLJ and whether you loved it, hated it, or still aren't sure about it, I hope we can all at least agree that the manner of discussion about the film needs to improve. So here we are.

    * * * * * * * *

    This will be a "general" thread but that doesn't mean there won't be rules. For starters, I'm going to quote a big one word for word:
    Of course all the other forum rules still apply here, and as with everywhere else there will be ZERO TOLERANCE for posts with sexist and racist intonations.

    To get into a few more specifics, let's stay away from the following:
    • Discussions of other fans, generalizations of groups, etc. - We want to hear about YOUR opinion, not your friends, co-workers, pets, or neighbors. Assumptions and connotations about others for having a certain view of the film will not be tolerated.
    • Box Office, Revenue, and Ratings / Poll Discussions - We like what we like (or what we don't) and nothing is going to change that but ourselves. We don't need to throw around numbers and dollars to validate our opinions, or invalidate others.
    • Posting opinion videos or stories without adding your own content - No more hit and runs with a post of only a Youtube video or the like. If you are posting a video or story, you should have a reason and something to add to the discussion at hand.
    • General slams and criticism of Disney, LFL, and those specific persons in charge - This is a thread about The Last Jedi. Keep your criticism relative to the film.
    In other words, this discussion should be relative to such topics as story, characters, the actors' performances, scores and themes, special effects, etc.

    Be respectful toward one another and accept that others have a different point of view. It's okay to disagree with it, but not disparage it. We're all going to learn to play together once and for all.

    Thank you all, and May the Force be with you... always!
     
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  2. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

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    I love this movie!

    (crossguard)(blue)
     
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  3. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Still mixed after many viewings, which is odd cause I can usually rate a movie by now after its release. I love some stuff and hate some stuff so I’m hoping that TROS will give more context to the things I didn’t like and I will look at this movie differently in December 2019.
     
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  4. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    Just curious how you feel after more viewings. Trending up or down? Or, steadily mixed throughout?

    I loved it initially, and I still do. I think it's a perfect sequel. I don't think its a great standalone film. Honestly, it's very much like ESB in that regard for me.
     
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  5. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I view TLJ the exact opposite way. I really enjoy it as a standalone yet don’t like it as a Saga movie. That’s why I’m so mixed and hoping TROS can add context to it as a Saga movie. I just don’t think it works as a sequel to TFA (which I loved), yet I enjoy it when I view it as its own entity. If that makes sense?

    I wasn’t a big fan of ESB back in 1980 (I was 8 years old so a lot of themes went over my head at the time). After ROTJ (and watching ESB as part of the Trilogy) for years after that, it clicked and I loved it.
     
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  6. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    It makes sense to me, and I'm sure TROS will build on enough themes from TLJ to really give it that saga feel. This is essentially what I'm saying about ESB (and I think you are too) that it works great as part of the trilogy, but it needs that third chapter to really make you appreciate it. Left by itself it might feel a bit hollow. If when you first saw ESB you weren't sure about it until after you had RotJ, I'm guessing there is a good chance the same could happen this time around for the ST as well. (Or, hoping!)

    I think it was a risky / bold move for TLJ to have the main trio of protagonists split into 3 different story lines, and for the most part I think it paid off. Add in the Kylo Ren / FO arc and there's a lot to pay attention to and keep track of as we jump around in the story. But I think it was brilliant the way they forged Rey and Kylo's stories together with the mind-bridge. I feel that the personal conflict between hero and villain is stronger here than any other instance in the saga, save for Anakin / Obi-Wan by the end of RotS. Otherwise, the Rey / Kylo dynamic has easily been the most gripping story line for me.
     
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  7. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    For me, if Force Ghost Luke gets some great moment in TROS (along with being in the final shot possibly winking to Rey) than it could put his ST character arc in a different perspective. I’m not a fan of TLJ Luke, but if we see alittle OT Luke in TROS then it changes things. The ST Luke arc could be:

    TFA: MIA Luke
    TLJ: Broken Luke
    TROS: Redeemed, Hopeful Luke.

    All of the sudden TLJ is alittle more compelling to me because we get a payoff with TROS Luke. I don’t have problems with putting our beloved characters through the ringer, but there has to be a payoff to make it worth the journey.

    So that’s just one example of how TROS could change the context of TLJ in a good way. I think if Palpatine was behind everything in the ST and Snoke was just a pawn (much like Dooku and Grevious in the PT), that changes the context on his death on TLJ. It makes it go from underwhelming (how I feel now) to something that wasn’t as big a deal in the grand scope cause Palpatine was the real villain.
     
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  8. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    To create this thread after the movie was released two years ago is kinda redundant IMO.

    For me the movie gets worse after more viewings. I'm only looking forward to the few good moments of the movie, but I probaby wouldn't skip the parts I don't like. First of all because it would feel wrong to do such thing, furthermore there wouldn't be much left of the movie itself.

    I agree with @Jedi77-83 here. TLJ feels more like a standalone movie than a sequel to TFA. Especially because the movie doesn't really care about the questions and plot points of the previous movie.

    This is something I like about the ST. Killing off Luke in TLJ was actually a good choice too (even though I would have let him die in EPIX). A Force ghost Luke can do much more than a non Force ghost Luke. Furthermore I'm looking forward to seeing Luke haunting Kylo.


    After two years I can say I'm quite disappointed about TLJ. I was so exicted after I heard Rian Johnson would do EPVIII. Everything prior release looked good, but then the movie didn't make it for me. My biggest worry came true: RJ needs his own playground to be great. This is also the reason why I think his trilogy will be quite good. It's all his to explore.
     
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  9. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    With that logic, Empire feels like a stand alone movie and so does AOTC (even more so then TLJ). Keep in mind that it was TFA that setup Luke going to the island and feeling responsible for what happened to Ben and his students.
     
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  10. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Not really. TESB took everything from ANH and actually built on it. You may be right about AOTC though, but this movie is probably the worst saga film anyway.

    And this is one of the good things about TLJ. That was my point.
     
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  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I also think we have to keep in mind that this is intended to be one large 9-part Saga. We may not see it now, but TROS might help with the final piece of the puzzle.
     
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  12. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Well @Andrew Waples, that’d be great and that's something we're all hoping- you know what I mean? But my point stands that, so far, Imo TLJ feels more like a standalone movie than a sequel to TFA.
     
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  13. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    ANH was setup as a standalone movie in 1977 with one plot point (Vader surviving) that kept opened a possible sequel to go anywhere Lucas wanted if the movie was a success. The movie has a beginning, middle and end that didn’t need a sequel. ESB essentially had to setup a new dynamic/story that opened up new questions (Luke’s heritage, The Other, saving Han).

    TFA was setup with a cliffhanger ending that requires sequels because it doesn’t answer any questions. TLJ has to work with TFA in a narrative sense because it’s really part 2 of the ST. ESB and ROTJ have to work more in a narrative sense than ANH because ESB sets up all the questions and ROTJ answers them.
     
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  14. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    Disclaimer:

    When I criticize something that I love;

    sometimes
    ,

    I bash the brains out while I'm at it.

    Only happens when I'm feeling fanatical, tho....

    but I digress.


    Bro, those two are some of the worst movies that I've ever seen and I'm still here! (+1 for making me laugh WAY too hard.)
    Do you know the favorite band of the Sith? Simply Red. Cause we keep holding on....
     
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  15. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Exactly! I also dislike TLJ, but I'm still very excited for TROS. It was the same back then with AOTC. I disliked it, but I was looking forward to ROTS.
     
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  16. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Jedi General

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    First off, I agree with @NinjaRen: to create this thread now is a little too late.

    Anyway, onto my thoughts on the movie almost two years later: I initially loved The Last Jedi, and while the flaws of it are way more apparent to me now that I’ve watched it several times, I still greatly enjoy it. Though like others have said, it does feel more like a standalone film than it really should; even things like differences in lighting, cinematography, and tone are very apparent when watching it back-to-back with TFA. And while I like how Finn’s arc from TFA continues into TLJ, the way his character is utilized feels drastically different to me between both movies in a way I can’t explain.

    I’ve already discussed what I do and don’t like about this movie several times here on this forum, but I just want to reiterate that everything from the scene of Luke opening himself to the Force again to the final shot of the Resistance in the Falcon remains incredible to me, while a lot if what comes before that is rather hit-or-miss in terms of my personal enjoyment.

    Unsurprisingly, I’m excited for The Rise of Skywalker and I can’t wait to get more post-ROTJ content after the ST is done. Regardless of what we all think of this movie, I still believe that we are in the golden era of Star Wars content right now.
     
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  17. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    Nah, you're just missing the point.

    It's never too late to change. To try and do right and correct course after years of misadventure. What's important is that you come back to the light eventually.

    You listening, Ben?
    ;)
     
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  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I agree as analyzing SW movies is like going to therapy, you hope you have that breakthrough session. Lol

    I analyzed the PT for years as they were sort of like TLJ, as I was very mixed. Many things frustrated me while I loved certain parts. It finally clicked after years and years as I liked the story but disliked the execution. So I finally understood what Lucas was going for in the 1-6 story and really enjoy the macro part (Palpatine) of the PT. But the personal story (Anakin/Padme) will just never work because they just don’t resonate with me.

    The ST is sort of the opposite where the characters and personal story really resonate with me but the macro story just doesn’t work for me (so far) as I’m having a hard time finding a reason why 7-9 should fit with 1-6 or even 4-6. That’s why TROS is such a make or break movie for me. The quality of TROS isn’t what I’m worried about, it’s whether the movie can gel the ST as a Trilogy and part of the Saga.
     
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  19. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    This sounds like it's bad to dislike something.

    I'm posting my dislikes about TLJ but also my likes. For example: IMO RJ made visually the most beautiful Star Wars movie to date. The acting is quite good (especially Mark Hamill and Adam Driver) and I also like the depiction of Luke Skywalker.
    Well said and I agree. The story of the PT is actually quite good, but its execution and characters are flawed. The story of the ST isn't that interesting, but its execution and characters are well made.
     
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  20. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    No, I was referring to the closure of the divisive TLJ threads and this one, all-inclusive thread taking their place. "Never too late to right a wrong" was in reference to us trying to improve communication between everyone, doesn't matter if you like or dislike it. That's all.
     
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