The Last Jedi really isnt as original and new as everyone is making it seem...

The chase scene is completely new. If you're saying it's like the Falcon chase in ESB then it might as well be the intro from ANH, the forest chase from RotJ, the escape from the Deathstar in ANH, the chase above Coruscant in AotC, or the Jakku ship graveyard from TFA.

There's never been a chase scene in Star Wars where a Capital Ship is running from another Capital Ship and they are both cruising at similar speeds for somewhere near 18 hours of in universe time. I'm not necessarily saying it's a good or bad thing but you can't say it's not original.

 

I love Yoda too, but his appearance in TLJ just took me out of the movie. My beef is that he acted like 'Crazy Yoda' when that is not his personality, especially at that point of the movie where they were essentially burning the past down. Yoda only acted crazy before Luke knew who he was to show him that his mind was clouded looking for an 8 foot warrior. But once Luke knows who he is, Yoda never acts crazy again. These type of decisions really made me question whether RJ even watched the OT movies, or even understands the OT movies?

 

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Oh my dear friend I would like it to be so.

Unfortnately, sublight speed fleet chase is already recognized as ripoff of the Battlestar Galactica episode 33, 2005( and general galactica series idea of survival fleet chase), where Cylons have Technology to predict where battlestar Galactica fleet will be after it emerge from Light speed.

The drama in ship is simple clishe' also, and a very avearge drama, , a mutiny because of diferent opinions due to very grim situation,...

There is also some distant resemblence in Snoke's ship and major Cylon battleship.

Why did Rian Johnson needed this?

He made Ahch-To beautifully, Luke's arc is perfect(for me), so why he neded ripof of Battlestar Galactica?

Maybe he is not Sci-Fi fan?

So he never watched Battlestar Galactica?

Does he only now realises he made basically same thing already made in Battlestar Galactica ep 33, with that Fleet chase idea?

 

Good point made there. For me personal it's the fact that that was the Yoda I have first seen in a movie. So maybe it's kind of nostalgic?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2018 ---

Yes! How could you know?

 

I totally get that, and I hope you don't think I was calling you out. That was such an important scene because it essentially saying that everything we saw about the Jedi in the first 7 movies was being erased by Yoda/Luke. I just think it could have been developed better along with not having 'joking around' Yoda cracking one liners.

 

I wonder if Yoda and Luke (and maybe even Ben or Vader) will appear as force ghost in the big trilogy final? IIn my opinion, that would be really cool.

 

Key addition to that would be... if done right.

At this point I'm not sure if I trust JJ to be able to pull that off without making it look corny or shoe horned into the script. I don't envy JJ's task to figure out how to approach 9 after TLJ. The story at this point is kind of ambiguous, anti-climactic... and a lot of fans want exposition on various points. JJ has always been good at creating loose threads, tying them up, not so much.

Additionally, I don't know if I want anyone touching the afterlife too much. If the ghost stick around too much, it's only a matter of time before someone asks a ghost how it feels being dead (or something else along those lines) and getting some flaky reply.

 

You're probably right. It's not easy to make a good ghost scene without making it silly or dumb. I thought more like a cameo. Before Luke disappeared and died, he said something like "See you" to Kylo, so there is a chance to see him in the next movie.

And you're right about J.J. Abrams. In my opinion, he is more the guy for a bit action and not the best choice for a deep story (the Star Trek reboot is a good example).
There's a reason why some people call him Jar Jar Abrams.

 

I think the point that subversion is where this movie diverges from ESB is a pretty solid one, but I'd like to add: at a certain level, any story is going to seem indistinguishable from another. That's pretty much the philosophy of stuff like the monomyth- it's not that every story follows the exact same elements of one another, but rather that stories are obviously going to share some elements, so if we take a step back we can begin categorizing and making generalizations.

And in Star Wars, that's really easy to do, seeing as how many of these actions are derrived from tradition in the lore.

I mean, yeah, we have a master training with an apprentice in this film (sort of, though that's not Rey's original purpose on the island). I mean, that's kind of a big part of what the Jedi do. Should this surprise us?

Or "dark side apprentice betrays master". Oh, you mean like the very purpose of the Sith's Rule of Two?

And sure, we had walkers on Scarif last year, but we can never have them on a white planet again because that's a repeat of Hoth, right?

And you know, the imagery of a lot of this probably is intentional. Like Crait- I could be wrong, but I don't think salt was randomly chosen as a biome simply because we haven't seen it in the movies before, making it unique. I'd be willing to be that the battle is totally supposed to call viewers back to Hoth. Star Wars has always been pretty fond of that technique, just look at how similar the rooms are in the duels between Vader and Luke on the DSII and Anakin and Dooku at the beginning of ROTS.

 

Sometimes being different is good, but it's not good just for the sake of being different. We should always be critically minded enough to point out what works and what doesn't.

What worked? Mainly Kylo killing Snoke. I could pass on the few other aspects that were different. Especially the portrayal of Luke and the lack of a strong mentor relationship between Luke and Rey, which just makes the movie feel emotionally disconnected from the previous films.

And when you consider that The Last Jedi basically set up another Empire vs Rebellion scenario, its difference is all wasted on gaining the stupidest similarity possible.

 

nothing is original honestly, even the ot is not 100% original for example

 

From a I high level, I guess you could say both ESB and TLJ:

Begin with our heroes escaping from a compromised base.
Have our heroes engage in a protracted chase.
Have our main character training with a master in seclusion.
Introduce an exotic location where our heroes meet an untrustworthy ally.
Have the villain offer the main character to join them and rule together.
End on a note of simply living to fight another day and not outright victory.

There’s certainly some familiar story beats, but nowhere near the number and degree TFA shares with ANH. There's no competition in that regard.

There's a pronounced difference between being referential and being self-referential.

 

Are there people basically saying that a "chase through space" is unoriginal because chases through space were done before? Is that what it came down to? Jesus...

 

Read title of the post and original post. We're not talking about originality in general, we're talking about specifically within the Star Wars universe. I agree it's very similar to Battlestar Galactica but that has nothing to do with the current topic at hand.

 

So basically the movie opens with a battle

Our heroes are chased throughout the entirety of the movie, at one point even being chased through a big cave.

The heroes are comprised of old legends and new, inexperienced but starry-eyed recruits.

The heroes seem to constantly take on the entire enemy force all by themselves.

The villains wear dark robes.

By the end, a military commander sacrifices themself so the rest of the group can escape, while the wizened old master fights a terrible evil only to win by a pyrric and fatal victory (and possibly return later).

Andy Serkis plays a villainous role, but ultimately isn't really around that much.

Totally either The Last Jedi.

Or Fellowship of the Ring.


See, they're the same movie, right?

 

Exactly. Precisely why this topic was referring to the similarities within the Star Wars universe and not general cinema or story telling. As soon as you do that you open the floodgates to way too many comparisons.

 

Well, it had to 'rename' characters and locations and ideas, anyhow Like a dramatic reenactment: The names have been changed to protect the lives of the innocent.

That’s kind of how direct sequels work though, yeah?