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The Mandalorian S2E4 - Chapter 12: The Siege

Discussion in 'The Mandalorian' started by Angelman, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hater of squid
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    Loved seeing The Crest back to it's prime! That dog fight and fly-over was so neat and a perfect way to fly off into the next episode!
     
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  2. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    Yes it was in the style of WWII, Pacific Thunder or The Battle of Britain ... Cool!
     
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  3. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    OK in case you didn't know, that was a hammerhead turn, or stall turn, that Mando did in the Razor Crest against the TIE fighters. Zoom climb, let the airspeed decay as you throttle back, and at the top do a 180 degree turn, going back the way you came. In the Razor Crest's case, Mando popped out the speed brakes to start the turn, did you notice that? Really cool touch that this old Air Force guy loved....by the way the stall turn was used to deadly perfection by the German Fokker D.VII fighter in WWI, many believe that was the best fighter of the war....

    Speed brakes out!! [look at the flaps that pop out of the engine cowling]

    Capture-razor crest speed brakes out.JPG
    Capture-razor crest speed brakes out-2.JPG
    Capture-razor crest speed brakes out-3.JPG
    Capture-razor crest speed brakes out-4.JPG
     
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  4. Choose Light

    Choose Light Jedi General

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    OK, your explanation made it even more impressive. Thanks, @Lock_S_Foils!
     
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  5. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    I was watching this also, and yes he used the airbrakes to cut the speed and turn the Crest downwards. Very dangerous maneuver when there is TIE coming below you. In general terms the TIE is in advantageous position - it is smaller, faster and more agile. In normal circumstances the Crest will be shot down when it is in the top of the arc having no speed and no energy left. This was used by the US pilots in the Pacific theater against the Zero fighters. Japanese tend to execute their specialty maneuver, but on top of the arc it will be sitting duck and can be shot. Later the Americans had new and more powerful fighters which were able to keep climbing and maneuvering, so they just followed the Zero until it was near zero speed, slow and out of control, and just aimed at it and shot it. Easy when you have over 2k horse power behind the propeller :)

    Japanese maneuver : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hineri-komi
    Simulation (game) you can see that the Corsair cannot outturn the Zero, but easily out climb it several times :

    Another possibility, you need to read the story in the second half of the page: https://www.pacificwar.org.au/Midway/TomCheek/RingofCoral/WildcatversusZero.html

    The second TIE he killed by surprise, simply attacking from the top, TIE pilot did not see him and was just swept away.
    The third TIE he some sort of outclimbed and shot from below. I don't say that this is impossible, but I think it is highly unlikely having in mind that the TIE is superiority star fighter and the Crest is gunship. The TIE rate of climb should be better that the Crest and than this maneuver will fail.

    Razor Crest is probably very close to this: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/SS-54_assault_ship
    TIE Outlander looks very similar to the Outland TIE: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE/ln_space_superiority_starfighter
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Outland_TIE_fighter
     
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  6. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    OK you are forgetting shielding, in this environment, which is huge. RC prob has better shielding than a TIE, which not totally sure but may not have any or negligible shielding. Take "shielding" to be roughly equivalent to armor plating/self sealing fuel tanks, on WWII fighters.

    Japanese Zero had zero armor plating....American F6F Hellcat (one of my fave aircraft of all time) was designed specifically to defeat the Zero and was much tougher with armor plating and self sealing fuel tanks.

    Only late in the war did the Japanese try and change their design philosophies with the Mitsubishi J2M and Ki-61 and Ki-84 for example....
     
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  7. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel Official

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    RC definitely has more than tie because tie only acquired shielding during the era of the first order
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 23, 2020 at 12:50 AM, Original Post Date: Nov 23, 2020 at 12:50 AM ---
    you are a plane genius
     
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  8. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    @Embo and His Pet Anooba Thanks, my life growing up was planes (WWII specifically), and Star Wars....in no particular order.....
     
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  9. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    The Razor Crest has shields and probably can project them in different modes, same as the Falcon. It has also some level of armor plating, but probably limited. The shields are military grade because it is ex military gunship or drop ship but really outdated, it is a clone wars era ship. It has some other tricks in the sleeve too, airbrakes, jammers, movable laser cannons which allow better targeting.
    TIE fighters have no armor and no shields, done on purpose to save weight and cost. Still it is very capable because of its maneuverability and speed. And the two laser cannons of course. Maximum speed 1200 kph vs. the Crest equivalent of 800 kph, so 50% faster. I bet that acceleration and maneuverability will have similar difference.
    I took the Corsair and the Zero as examples on purpose, but we should think of the Razor Crest more as a transport plane than fighter. TIE represents the Zero quite well, small, fragile, but very fast and agile. I am not sure which plane will represent the Crest best, some sort of small armed transport or some gunship like North American B-25 Mitchell probably.
     
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  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I don't know why they called it a "siege" it was more like an assault.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 23, 2020 at 10:42 AM, Original Post Date: Nov 23, 2020 at 10:19 AM ---
    Oh so that's a real move.
     
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  11. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    In German the episode is called "Die Vertreibung" => the expulsion

    Much more fitting I guess. The Empire was expelled from Nevarro. On the other hand the Empire did besiege Nevarro.
     
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  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Why did the quote add "new" in there? I didn't type that...
     
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  13. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    That is weird! Haven't a clue... :eek:
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I really have no idea! I'm on my Smartphone right now. Maybe there was a bug?
     
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  15. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    A force ghost did it.
     
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  16. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    Quick thought. At the beginning of this past episode, when Mando calls back to the child, he yells "Hey-" and then abruptly stops as if he doesn't know what to say next. I think he realizes he can't get by much longer without the child having a proper name.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it comes up again this next episode, if they indeed meet Ahsoka and introductions are (somewhat awkwardly) made and he gets chided for not giving his kid a name. Would be very interesting to see what Din comes up with!
     
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  17. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    On a related note, I believe I have a wager on this season , I think we will learn the name of the species of babyoda/ yoda
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Maybe this was answered already, but I didn't see...

    Is Carl Weathers the first person to have a major roll in the same Star Wars thing he directed (ie not just a cameo)?
     
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  19. Choose Light

    Choose Light Jedi General

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    I guess it depends on how you see Taika Waititi’s role as IG-11 in chapter 8. He had a major voice role while directing, but I’m guessing all that is done in the studio after the fact. I would think as director he would put a lot of thought into the directions for the fake robot acting :D but I don’t know if that’s a “major” role exactly...
     
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Ah, I hadn't considered that.

    I'm not sure I'd diminish Waititti's performance because it was also really great.

    Honestly, impressive for them both!
     
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