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The Mandalorian S2E6 - Chapter 14: The Tragedy

Discussion in 'The Mandalorian' started by Krali Marko Vizla, Dec 4, 2020.

  1. Mando LXXXV

    Mando LXXXV Rebel Official

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    Just realized that by the time Din gets Grogu back, it will have been at least days! Each passing minute is too much and yeah Grogu will spend most of the time asleep but still examined and poked for blood and Gideon can decide to hurt or kill him if he thinks it's all over for him after Din and team attacks the ship
     
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  2. Skarwolf

    Skarwolf Clone

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    Mandalorian verse the force field...

    People aren’t that intelligent in this universe are they ?

    Stormtroopers, “Hey its that guy with the blasterproof armor whose killed 100 of our buddies.... lets all run at him shooting!!!

    Can shoot his ship from orbit.... doesn’t shoot Slave 1 though ‍♂️.
     
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  3. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel Official

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    I loved this episode, the best moment for me was seeing Slave 1 flying past the temple. You just knew it was going to kick off when Boba Fett arrived, but not knowing if it was Din or the imperials he was going fight.

    Great action and finally showing Boba Fett as the lethal merciless bounty hunter we've all heard about. To be honest I think Din is lucky that Boba seems to be an honorable man in making a deal to get his armour back as I'm sure if he really wanted too, he could have just taken it from him.
     
    #223 Viper78, Dec 8, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  4. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    The series is full of such controversies - short thought scenarios. I have commented also before for Season 1 there were such flops in the script. It makes the story laughable if you stop for a moment to think of it. I will speculate here and say they do it on purpose. There are small stories, small obstacles to be taken care of, if the story is done realistic it may become too big, or will need to spend more time, or will make it too easy or too hard etc. The story teller picks some ways to make the script ongoing and sometimes he makes an unrealistic scenario just to be able to present the story as written and continue with the script.

    If you take chapter 11 - no storm trooper tried to throw a grenade. That will be the first thing to do when defending or attacking against overwhelming enemy. And no stormtrooper tried to take a cover behind the wall or behind those pillars. They just stay in the middle of the corridor waiting to be shot. The ship also has no protection against intruders, no automated sentry, no covers or protection for the defending soldiers either. And the stormtroopers thave no shields either, they just stay witht here plastic armor which gives so limited protection.

    In chapter 12 - one razor crest against 3 TIE Outlander? Also TIEs were shooting like crazy on that transport and no one hit it. No one called the headquarters for help either. The computer of that base can be unlocked by any, can be set to destroy the base, no automated protection, no password or other mechanism which will prevent easy access. Code cylinder from one officer can unlock all doors and terminals, no second level authentication present.

    In chapter 13 - a squad of guards just go in the forest when it's dark and there is fog, hunting for advanced and skilled opponent. There is no scanner, no droid, no air support, no any other support which will allow them to locate the jedi and coordinate attack. They are expected to see the Jedi and shoot her in the fog with limited visibility. Or they are expected to be an easy target? In that tower - no sniper position or defended fortified position. All soldiers fight on foot in the small streets. Why are they hunting the jedi in the small streets? Dividing the soldiers in groups of 2? That makes them easy target and the jedi can disable them one by one. It makes a lot of cool CQB scenes of course, but in real life will never happen. Or the soldiers are small obstacle to let us see the fight between jedi and the magistrate.

    In chapter 14 - Mando runs to the enemy to confront first, when he knows they are 2 or more. Isn't it better and smarter to take a higher ground and wait for them to come? The sniper is engaging enemy in their range, so she can be shoot at with everything they have. Normally snipers stay behind and maintain bigger distance so to say they keep out of enemy range. Mando left his jetpack on the rocks so he can't go after the dark troopers. Slave I flew just below the cruiser, no one saw it, no one shoot at it. Normally in a war zone any unidentified ship approaching is considered hostile and will be shot. The cruiser shot one ship and left the other intact when they were parked not far from each other. Normally all unidentified ships, vehicles, transports, tanks, etc. present on enemy territory are considered enemy and destroyed. Also - normally vehicles are destroyed first and then the infantry is send, not the other way around. But if they did that than Boba cannot go back to the ship and take his armor.

    This all, my friends, is the magic of star wars, it is to give a beautiful story, doesn't need to be 100% realistic or thought in much detail. Important is to present the story and to follow the script.
     
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  5. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    If Boba can categorically prove that the armour belongs to him, then why does he need to bargain with Din for it and end up taking on a debt to save Grogu?

    And Fennec. Did she seem like the kind of villain who would pledge servitude to a bounty hunter for replacing her guts with technology?

    I'm really liking the Mandaorian but it's hardly nuanced writing a lot of the time. It's unapologetically crowd pleasing without being mawkish and manages to pull it off nicely most of the time.
     
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  6. Klabauter

    Klabauter Clone Trooper

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    Do we know anything on if they tried or not or how long it takes to reload the guns? No we don't! So yeah, I don't get critism based on assumptions that they could have done so and chose to not do so. Furthermore: It's a difference to hit a moving target (Slave 1) compared to an unmaned target that's just standing there basically waiting to be shot to dust. It is heavily implied also that Boba has to be quick to get to his ship to save it from the same fate as the Razor Crest and he does just that...

    Same as above: Assumptions! Have we ever seen Stormtroopers using grenades in this show? Are we certain that specific troopers on the ship had grenades with them and opted not to use them? Again: If the episode would have shown a trooper with a grenade attached to his belt or troopers restocking their grenades or whatever to give us reason to believe "This troopers are equiped with grenades" then I would totally get the complaint about them not using grenades. Did we have such a shot/scene though? Nope!

    A lot more assumptions:
    - Din Djarin doesn't know their are at least two enemys. He actually uses his telescope to see who is on this ship and spots only ONE person, Boba Fett!
    - Jetpack: Once again he had reason to leave it behind and no time to pick it up. What good does taking the time to take up the jetpack, when time is what they don't have because Grogu is in danger.
    - War Zone? They are tracking one person down to hunt Grogu. How is Tython a War Zone. Or any other planet?
     
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  7. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    Your attempt is heroic!

    That's funny, the imperial light cruiser has 4 quad turbo laser turrets and 8 quad laser batteries. They don't need to reload it.

    At that moment both ships were landed, Slave I was not far from the Crest. You should look at the movie again.
    When Slave I flew below the cruiser they could simply shoot it with the turrets.
    Nope they didn't. Why? Because the movie will hit a hard time, who's going to come to that planet to save them. Without a ship they cannot move from there.

    With jet pack he moves faster, it makes a lot of sense to take it first and to fly to the top. Of course that will make the scene with dark troopers flying with Grogu and the scene with Slave I pursuing them not possible. So that is in my opinion intentional choice of the director.

    They have dispatched 2 troop transports with over 20 troopers, with heavy blaster and mortar. That looks like a mini war to me, not like chasing a single guy.

    Actually you are making assumptions here. Look, these cylinder on their back is a grenade called thermal detonator / model N-20

    Screenshot_2020-12-08_14-06-07.png Screenshot_2020-12-08_14-10-30.png
     
    #227 Krali Marko Vizla, Dec 8, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  8. Baba_Fett

    Baba_Fett Clone

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    That looks like a competition! Let's see who's going to win :D
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2020 ---
    Probably this is a way to say "Hey I appreciate that you saved my armor" . Fennec was left to die in the desert, saving her life and protecting her from bounty hunters is worth something right?
     
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  9. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    I can only say WAW to that!
     
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  10. Baba_Fett

    Baba_Fett Clone

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    Yeah me too! I am pretty sure he could just peel it of his dead body :D but that will make the story much shorter. And we demand! the show to continue! Will be great tho see Din and Boba fight together. Epic!
     
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  11. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    Grogu is not so defenseless anymore, he can give some fight back and I really hope to see him using the force more in next episode.
     
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  12. Baba_Fett

    Baba_Fett Clone

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    Yeah, poor baby ... those imps will suck the last drop of blood from his little body. Hurry up Din, hurry up!
     
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  13. Klabauter

    Klabauter Clone Trooper

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    If we simply assume that any vehicle we see in the series is at full functionality and fully equipped with weapons that is the case, yes. Should we assume that as we know the Imperials in this series use modifications and old imperial stuff? I'm not sure about that...

    See above. If that Imperial Cruiser Gideo uses is fully equipped, than of course they should have done so! I absolutely agree there. However I don't see that we can simply assume that it is this way. Therefore it COULD be a plot hole, it also couldn't. And in case of doubt I chose to believe in the writers and won't consider it a plot hole. Maybe that's to much generosity towards them, but that's how I see it.

    They have! But they also have used that to only hunt down Din Djarin, Grogu and whoever is helping them. They did not blindly kill anyone on a planet where Din was before and I honestly don't get why they should do so now in your opinion. For all we know Gideon tracked the Razor Crest. We don't know if Gideon knows about the Slave 1 and we don't know if he identified Boba Fett as an ally to Din Djarin (at least not at the moment you suggested they should shot all the ships).

    Fair enough. Although I'm still not sure if - even as they had them - using them would be a good idea inside a ship full of weapons. That model of a grenade (I actually looked up previous uses in Rebels and The Clone Wars) is way stronger than the ones Din actually uses on the ship. Would it be a good idea to use a way stronger weapon than that on the ship risking to blow it up? I don't think so!

    He does move faster with his jetpack and it would be useful to have it against dark troopers. The thing is he doesn't have it on and doesn't want to waste time at this moment. What he wants is to get to Grogu and save him from death (he doesn't know who is coming after him and saw attempts at taking the life of Grogu at least twice). So yeah, seems pretty believable to me that he won't rationally calcute it through that he has the time to get his jetpack on, but immediately acts out of pure emotion and protectiv instinct and rushes to the top head over heels without his jetpack.

    Yes, we can now afterwards tell it was a bad idea. But just because we see this now doesn't mean Din Djarin should have acted different in the very moment he chose to act like he did. A decision made by a character in a move can be considered wrong or even dumb while still being the only/right decision for the character at the moment the decision was made.
    Also: You mentioned the Dark Troopers and again, yes, Din could have persued them with his jetpack. Then again: How would he know about the usefullness of his jetpack against Dark Troopers in the moment he ran to top instead of grabbing his jetpack. How would he know of Dark Troppers to begin with?

    Or in short: You are judging him based on the full information we have afterwards. He doesn't have that information, when he has to make his decisions.
     
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  14. Krali Marko Vizla

    Krali Marko Vizla Rebel General

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    That model can be dialed to inflict more or less damage depending on the need. It's true it can be very powerful. Yet when you are pushed to the wall any means will be used.

    I am surprised that you didn't mention anything about the storm troopers not taking cover and the fight in the small streets when Ahsoka killed them all one by one. Or the lack of snipers in that city, and the wall guarded by a handful of soldiers.

    Your arguments sound very weak. He is a trained warrior, not a kid with gun. He should know that planning and strategy is the key in any battle.
    Yet the point you miss is that the jetpack was on the way to the top, he just had to stop and put it back. But no ...

    i judge the script writer or director or whoever there made this simple plot, he should have thought better. An interesting story is not easy to make, I don't want them to rush into making the show and overlook important details. As example, his backpack could be shot by a stormtrooper and malfunctioned, that may be more realistic and interesting than just forget to pick it from the ground where he left it.
    The cruiser could open fire on Slave I and let Boba play some piloting skills. Will be much more interesting to see him evading the shots by pulling some maneuvers.
    They could shoot at Slave I and miss.
    Din could try to fly to after the Dark troopers but be unable to reach them because they fly faster.
    There are plenty of other plots that could be done. If the episode is not 35 minutes but 40 because of some extra scenes, is it going to hurt someone?
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2020 ---
    Rushing to confront the enemy is never a good move, very bad strategy, no matter in this moment or the next. In season 1 he was a seasoned warrior who is cool in any moment and takes the right decisions, in season 2 he play as a nervous mother who is always in a rush to save her baby. but rushing through is not always the best, also doesn't fit to Din and to what we saw in season 1. They want to make us think he is very attached to the child and is acting in a moment of high stress not able to judge his actions clearly because of his attachment to the child. I don't buy this story, it's too simple for me.
     
    #234 Krali Marko Vizla, Dec 8, 2020
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  15. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    Imo..

    Cruiser weapons and not firing on the Slave I: i didn’t think about that at first, but makes sense. Unless we’re given indication otherwise, assuming it’s at full power is reasonable, because that would be the norm, especially with how the ship and everything else associated with Gideon looks pristine.

    Forgetting the jetpack: i’d call it plot convenience. Din knows it’s the fastest way to the top. while, yes, it would’ve taken a moment to put it on, it would’ve been more than made up for in the time to the top. It’s a logical assumption that he would've grabbed it, given how much he likes and uses it(i thought he did when he first raced to the top), and I was honestly wondering in the moment why he never used it.
     
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  16. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Gideon was tracking The Crest and as far as we know he had no desire to destroy Slave 1 or have any idea Boba Fett was on Tython at all, he was there to capture Grogu and achieved his goal
     
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  17. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras MASTER TEA MAKER
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    Also he only ordered the Crest destruction after his troopers raid to capture Grogu & so destroyed what he assumed was Din a nay means of escape. Plus there is still are huge bounty out on him so if there are other ships present like Slave 1 it’s a fairly logical conclusion that they are probably Bounty Hunter Guild ships & destroying them is probably not great if you want to hire any guild members in the future.
     
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  18. Krali Marko Vizla

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    Isn't it logical if there are other ships there who might be searching for the child that he destroy them in order to prevent them from finding it? It was not said that Boba is working for the guild, did you know something or this is an assumption? It was also not shown what exactly were moff orders, but I assume it is possible that his orders were like this.
    Empire is shown to be ruthless and unforgiving, I don't see why they would spare anyone else on an uninhabited planet. I would expect the opposite - they will level the place and kill everyone on site. After all, you should know not to mess with the empire.
     
    #238 Krali Marko Vizla, Dec 8, 2020
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  19. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras MASTER TEA MAKER
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    Not if you are the guy that’s hired them to find said Child
    It’s stated in the episode that the bounty on Grogu ( the one placed by Gideon is still in effect & has actually increased) so what if a Bounty. Hunter hired by Gideon has The Child & you just want to blow up his ship :eek:.
    That not going to go down well with either the guy you hired or the guild in general.
    Also I NEVER SAID Boba was part of the guild ( well he was but considering he is now working to protect the Child he probably isn’t anymore)
     
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  20. Krali Marko Vizla

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    yes that's right, yet they could kill the child also when they shot the crest, what if Din left the child in his ship, gideon doesn't know why they are on this planet. I think they have scanned the area and found the child before they shoot at the crest. this is why they send the dark troopers directly to the spot.
    How much does it take to admit that the plot could have been done more interesting? I am just saying it was a bit too shortsighted. It was a great episode, yet it was too predictable. And I am asking, are they rushing through? Or the director was inexperienced? I don't know, this is just my opinion, what I try to ignite here is a discussion.
     
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