The More I Try The Less I Like Disney's Star Wars

As @Pawek_13 said earlier, Disney is basically in a lose-lose situation with this.
If they expand the universe they are ignoring legacy and Lucas. If they follow his stuff, they are just rehashing and copying Lucas.
Galaxies are incomprehensibly huge.
I think we lose sight of that in a story with space travel, we still forget that the Galaxy has unknown regions...

 

exactly.

i'm of the ilk that none of this bothers me.
it's Star Wars. [shrug]

 

I think those of us who grew up with the OT have to (reluctantly) concede that this is not our Star Wars anymore and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

i grew up with the OT and this is my Star Wars. : D

 

I'm old enough to remember the talk of Lucas raping our childhood with the Prequels and Special Editions. I'm old enough to remember the severe backlash to "NOOOOOOOO" on the Blu-Rays.

While everyone can have their opinion, take into account recency bias.

Case in point: Growing up ROTJ was my favorite film. When I became an adult. That changed to ESB. When TPM came out. I loved it. Then, I started to dislike it more and more every time I watched it due to Jar Jar and some of the acting. Then, AOTC came out and I loved it. Thought it was worlds better than TPM. Thought Lucas got his grove back. But then, time passed and it soured on me. Then ROTS came out. I loved it. Thought it was on par with the OT. Then...time passed. And time passed. And then TFA and RO came out. I loved, loved, loved TFA. Thought it was tied with ESB as the best. RO I felt had issues, but I still enjoyed. Yet time passed. And time passed.

And now? TPM is my favorite prequel. I really enjoy the film every time I watch it. AOTC is my least favorite SW movie by far. ROTS I feel drags at times and doesn't hold a candle to the OT. TFA to me is a clear number 3 on my list. RO got better as I watched it a few more times.

My point is that for many of us the Disney-owned Lucasfilm is still new and still evolving. Is it Lucas' baby anymore? No. And you can either accept that and move on or you can be like the PT haters who couldn't let go and still can't let go of their bias towards the OT.

I'd advise all SW fans to just enjoy the ride. Stop looking backwards as to what you "expect" from Star Wars and give these new creatures, designs and locations a fair shot. For example, TFA was and is criticized by many here as being too much like the OT in design, look, location and story beats. Okay. Fine. But I'm old enough to remember fans during the PT screaming that the PT wasn't nearly enough like the OT in design, look, location and story beats. Now TLJ is coming out with new looks, designs, locations and story beats and fans are complaining that its TOO different or doesn't look like Star Wars.

I'd like to just finally point out that the main players of Lucasfilm are all either disciples of Lucas or worked closely with him for years. KK was a disciple of he and Spielberg. The StoryGroup are LucasFilm veterans. Dave Filoni was basically Lucas' adopted son. John Williams is still working on these films. I can go on and on.

So just take a moment. Breathe. Enjoy the new. Celebrate the old. And stay true to the light.

 

I dig that the galaxy has unknown regions and I get happy when I see them expand on this but it's one thing to add and another to simply forget everything that existed before without any respect and that's what Disney is doing. When TFA came out, those of us that were bothered that they made no use of OT and PT aliens were quickly told not to complain because TFA took place in a far away part of they galaxy. While that made no sense because Lucas had made it clear that there were alien races that explored the galaxy as much as humans (some even more so) we waited along to see what happened but then came RO which was set during the OT era and what did Disney do? It gave us a good movie which seemed to be totally alien to the OT era. Shouldn't there be known races in the galaxy? It's ludicrous to think that races that colonized the galaxy like Rodians, Quarren, Ithorians, Twi, Lek, Nikto ect just up and vanished because they are staying away in their own part of the galaxy.

In the SW that Lucas gave us it would make perfect sense for races like the Hutts to make their way to Jakku. Trandoshans, Bith and Rodians would likely be seen on Jedah as well. This is not about arguing that I want the new SW to be a clone of what Lucas did but they are not following the formula of letting the fans know and feel that they are in the same galaxy instead of everyone doing whatever they want like a baby with a new toy. Let's pretend for a moment that I don't care about Disney not wanting to deal with Lucas's aliens, why didn't they use a single one of those created by JJ either? Abrams made some wonderful new creatures that we all fell in love with yet those cool aliens are just going to die and get lost in the trend of always giving us something new.

Sidon Ithano looks awesome and he could have turned out to be a fan fave like Boba Fett as could Sarco Plank.




Sticking in guys like these would let us feel like we are in the same galaxy as it's logical that some of these creatures would be in places were maybe the OT and PT aliens aren't:






yet we are not getting pieces of a puzzle that go together but a whole new thing every time someone puts his/her hands on SW. Same goes for the Droids. JJ made some interesting ones so why not stick one or two in RO? Lucas made staples out of his 3PO protocol droids, Power Droids and Astromechs and he expanded on that in all his saga which made the SW galaxy mesh nicely yet I bet that we won't be seeing guys like these do the same:




Sometimes I wish many of the new Disney SW fans would take a moment to think about these things before they charge in guns blazing. When some of us complain about these things, we are not saying that we hate everything new but that we care for it dearly and don't want SW to get ruined like many franchises these days. How many people already hate the X-Men and Transformers because because directors just did whatever they wanted with those films and just stepped on the already existing lore? We really want SW to be awesome! We want the ST and future movies to be mind blowing and not only capture the magic but go beyond this by not being just another cash grab nostalgia feeding franchise and I would be glad to see a future trilogy that blew away both the OT and the PT by sheer awesomeness but the way they are doing things doesn't look like they are going in the right direction.

Disney should respect what came before and expand upon it while adding new wonderful things. This would grab much more fans instead of having the fan base divided in two. I want to expand the wonderful LOTR saga and create wonderful stories? That's perfect but making a movie in Middle Earth about two human warriors that are traveling with a Kobold, a Sahuagin and a Gorgon while completely getting rid of every single Hobbit, Elf, Ork, Goblin and Dwarf is not the way to go.

 

I really don't think the fan base is as divided as perhaps seen on these forums as these forums are a bubble in a sense. I understand your point. My counterpoint to that is that I really do think in terms of aliens and droids, Lucasfilm is pushing for the ST to stand on its own in a sense. The books and cartoon series do have many of those droids and alien races that fans of the OT would find familiar. I don't really think (in all honesty) that Disney is clamping down hard on the idea that any of Lucas' droids/alien races cannot be used. If anything, I think Disney is trying very hard to EXPAND the galaxy, while keeping some familiar in terms of ship design, stormtrooper design, Legacy characters, factions...etc.

If anything, I think Disney respects what came before because it agreed to familiar designs from the OT and a movie that took place just before the OT. I think it does perhaps view the PT a bit more radioactive on the big screen, but instead of feature films, its focusing callbacks to that era in the Rebels series and in the books.

Disney and Lucasfilm cannot make everyone happy with these films. That's impossible. There is a tightrope between familiar and new that is being walked. There seems to be a ton of new in TLJ - which to me is a good thing. I'm a fan of Star Wars. It doesn't matter to me the era - although I grew up during the OT. I have my criticisms, but they mostly come from scriptwriting and occasional wonky story decisions. But at the same time, I've let go of my preconceived notions of what I think Star Wars should look like.

 

I think this is the biggest thing to understand and you stated it very well.
If Star Wars doesn't follow a personal, specific idea you have for Star Wars, that doesn't mean new Star Wars is bad or lesser. It just means you have a very specific notion or idea of what YOU think Star Wars should be.

 

You make some good points and I do agree that as time goes by many fans visions change regarding if they like this movie more than that one and so on but like them or hate them, when you look at the PT movies you instantly feel that you are in the same universe. We can look at the prequels and hate the acting, the CGI and we can REALLY hate Jar Jar's poop and fart jokes but when it comes down to it, you can watch the PT and the OT one after the other and you still feel like you are watching the same story and not something forced with a few known characters so fans can relate to them.

This isn't about Lucas making the movies but more of a series that fans love and many grew up with and with a company that doesn't seem to care much about this because all they want to do is sell their product to people who don't seem to care about anything more than getting another SW movie no matter how flawed it is. If Disney wanted to do their own thing in the first place then why drag along the OT characters? For fan hype and nostalgia and nothing more? If Disney didn't care about many of the things that Lucas created then why not simply reboot the series? If that had been the case then I would be happy with the new SW and I wouldn't complain because this would be a whole new ball game where the old rules don't apply but Disney didn't do that and instead they told us ''Here are your childhood heroes that you love so much'' only to degrade them so that they can show us that their new characters are way better.

That is not following a story but stepping over things fans love just because they want to make money. The Empire was not good enough so the First Order is better. The way Jedi of old used the Force was lame so let's have Rey and Kylo look incredibly powerful without caring if the other six movies that came before showed us otherwise. Who cares that all these new ships, tanks and troopers were never seen in the OT, let's stick them there cause fans these days don't care about continuity and they will eat it up. The Death Star became operational during the events of ANH? Who cares about that? Let's impress fans by having it blow things up not once but two times! Why should we care if the past six movies made people feel at home by giving us aliens that were common in the SW galaxy? Let's do new ones every singly time and just say we are on a far away planet! So humans can colonize the complete galaxy but certain alien races can't?

Those and many more things are the factors that are hurting SW for many of us fans but it's really sad to see that we are living in a time where people don't care about the purity of something as long as they get new movies. Screw the timeline, screw the story and screw what came before cause I want to see AT ATs running as fast as speeders and I want to see Grey Jedi shooting white lightning! Kill the OT heroes for all we care as long as we get somebody new in the next movie we are good! That's such a sad way to look at something so beautiful as was the SW that Lucas gave us.

 

I'm not sure where you see any of the decisions as a cash grab. You see the First Order as a lazy, banal decision, but I see it as the most extreme factions of the Empire banded together to take control. You see the Rey and Kylo look incredibly powerful without caring and I see two Force users who both would get wiped off the floor by any of the Jedi from the PT (that lightsaber battle was appropriately clunky and without grace). I don't think having the Death Star hit two targets was done to impress the fans. Both had story purpose. I'm also not sure where you think the aliens in the PT had anything in common with the OT. Aside from some shots during the Mos Espa scenes, we instead got a lot of new aliens (Kamino, Utapau, Geonosis, Dexter, Jar Jar). They also had to kill Han, because Harrison wasn't going to do more than one of these new films. So rather have him showing his son love than not include him in the film.

What is "the SW that Lucas gave us" mean? Does this mean that Star Wars wasn't given to me because I disagree with almost all of your opinions? My point was that many of the same arguments you make were made during the PT. The backlash over the Clonetroopers look, the Gungans, young Anakin, the Pod Race, the romantic subplot, Yoda vs Dooku. I mean I could go on and on. And over time, fans have accepted it as part of Star Wars. Is it because Lucas made it? Is that what this is really about?

You talk about cash grabs, but my lord, the Ewoks were an ultimate cash grab. Or where they? Some fans would say yes. Others would say they weren't. To say that the new Star Wars is all about cash grab decisions really denigrates the hard working artists, designers, writers, directors and actors who are putting everything into these films. It's also a very cynical way to look at these films.

I also don't find anything about our childhood heroes going through more struggles degrading. These aren't the EU books were they basically kept kicking ass and taking names. There is nothing interesting in that. What is interesting is how the galaxy handles finding out Leia's true parentage. How Han handles fatherhood. How Luke handles failing to restart the Jedi. We can argue whether these films needed to be made. That's one I'd love to have. But they are being made. And you have to find ways to challenge your heroes. And what better way than to hit each of them on a personal level and force them each to question their own purpose and identity. Life went on for our heroes. And it wasn't going to be the way any of us imagined in our youth. To me its easier to let go of what I expected and enjoy new places these films take the heroes.

I'm not going to try to change you or anyone else's mind over any of my opinions. I just feel very sad for you and others who view this Star Wars landscape as somehow tainted because its not in Lucas' hands anymore and/or you just don't like the new films. I didn't like the PT films at first. I actually thought about walking away from SW at the time. I'm glad I didn't. Because over time I found a new appreciation for those films even if I still think they are very flawed.

 

It's not Disney Star Wars. Lucasfilms is still about Lucasfilms, it's just owned by Disney. Disney is more about buying something and thinking it looks good on them and letting them do their thing. It's just George Lucas free. Like or hate it, whatever. I like it. I like it all.

 

Rey has an overpowered use of the Force? Anakin piloted a pod racer at 9 years old for crying out loud. If you know me you'd know I am about the story. A bad story kills a good idea. I also don't think anyone is calling JJ a genius. Every Force user has strengths where others Force users do not. Again, the ST seems more alien to you. Not to me. But then again, talk to me in 20 years and let me know if that opinion of yours has changed.

Only fanboys and diehards will remember where the scar is. The vast majority of Star Wars fans grew up on the Special Editions, so those of us who saw the originals know about moving things in movies. Rogue One showed the fleet was massively depleted after the battle of Scarif and dispersed. The idea of the Force has expanded more in the past 7 years than it did in the previous 33.

I could write a five page essay on the plot holes and problems for each Star Wars film. But its kind of pointless to do so because plot holes in previous movies go away with each film and my opinions change over time after repeated viewings.

It's all recency bias. Star Wars fans are notorious over the years for bashing the very thing in front of them because it doesn't hold up to their preconceived notions of what Star Wars is supposed to feel like and look like. If you and others feel like its just a cash grab, then walk away. Don't give your money. I'm not saying that to be an Peedunky, I'm being honest. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. I suspect you will still buy tickets, however, to see TLJ and the subsequent movies. And I also suspect you'll convince yourself not to like things because, again, they run counter to how you believe the Star Wars universe should look and sound. That is no way to enjoy these films. If TLJ or any Star Wars film sucks in my opinion, I'll gladly share it and defend my opinion. But, that doesn't mean I'm going to assume Disney has zero interest in honoring the franchise. That's really cynical and frankly kind of depressing.

 

They can expand star wars all they want but the majority of the people are only truly interested in seeing stories expanded upon based on the characters that are created by Lucas/expanded upon the beloved characters that they've already grown with and it is okay with having spin offs with new characters and expanding the galaxy as a whole but the direct saga needs to not move so drastically and be more linear if that makes any sense.

 

Preconceived notions of what Star Wars is is one thing but bad storytelling and moving a scar just because I didn't like it is another. You say people are bashing but you fail to see that sadly the new SW is very flawed in the eyes of fans that love what Lucas created. I see no fault in liking the new SW as everyone has the right to like what they like and not me or anybody else can tell them otherwise but the problem here is that Disney didn't choose to reboot the saga but continue where Lucas ended and that is their problem. You also try to lay fault by saying that Amanaman WANTS to convince himself that the new SW is bad but I can say this is not the case. I know the guy and if there was someone who rooted for Disney and TFA it was him. He was pumped, bought his tickets ahead of time to watch the movie with his wife two times in a row and sadly left the theatre after his second viewing feeling empty and confused. His wife who loves SW with the same passion felt the same way as did some of his friends who were also there. So does this mean he WANTED the movie to fail? Why can't you and many other hardcore TFA fans simply accept that many people just didn't like it?

Amanaman had bought the figures, his wife and he bought the shirts but when they saw the movie they were disappointed and this has happened with alot of people. Now when we say these things it seems like many of you TFA fans seem to think that we WANT you guys to hate the movie when this is not the case. I can't force you or anybody to agree with me but it's plain silly for TFA fans to WANT people to accept their point of view yet they can't deal with the obvious flaws TFA had. The movie was extremely unoriginal and it was just a carbon copy of ANH but do you guys accept that? NO! You grab on to the sad excuse that it was similar because it was meant to connect fans with SW again when that makes no sense as SW was going strong as ever. We had the movies, comics, toys, video games, books ect and we had just finished CW and were entering Rebels and you want me to believe that fans needed a rehash to know what SW was?

Then many of you go bonkers when somebody calls Rey a Mary Sue or says she's overpowered when TFA clearly showed us this. Then you try to defend the obvious by saying Anakin piloted a Podracer as a child. Let's compare both characters shall we?

Anakin: Was good at fixing things and used Jedi abilities simply to help him pilot the Pod. Did it do him good? No. He failed at every race and couldn't even finish a single one. He needed a Jedi Master's guidance to finally be able to do it. Even after getting trained by one of the best Jedi Masters ever, the kid STILL grew up to be a dorky Jedi that constantly failed. He would get chewed on by his master, loose his weapon, get defeated and have his limb cut off, was suckered by a Sith Lord, was reckless, impatient, ambitious, shortsighted ect. He made incredibly bad choices and yet again he was defeated by someone who ended up slicing his limbs off. I can write you a HUGE list of Anakin's flaws but I assume you get the point and here we are talking about a being the was created by the living Force!

Rey: Orphan girl that is left with a dweeb on a horrid planet and yet the girl grows up to be a symbol of perfection in everything. The girl is a perfect fighter, scavenger, mechanic and pilot. She can understand Droids perfectly unlike dorks like Luke or Anakin and she even understood Wookies. Are we to believe that Unkar Plutt loved Rey so much that he thought her those skills? The girl can show Han a thing or two about his own ship, she can self teach herself how to pull thoughts out of the mind of a TRAINED Jedi (by Luke Skywalker of all people backed up by more training by Snoke) learned on the fly how to do the mind trick and gave a Stormtrooper THREE different commands, beat a trained Dark Jedi in a Force pull battle and then used the Force to pump herself to beat the guy when she was loosing because she was clearly outclassed. The girl was so awesome that she lived in that nasty world COMPLETLY ALONE because she had the skills to take on anybody who could mess with her. She's so bad that by the time Han and Finn got there to rescue her, Rey had already dodged all FO security and eas well on her way to escape by herself. She also has an incredibly loving heart and perfect feelings that are just meant for her to be liked as she has not a single flaw.

Now, does that mean that I want you to hate Rey? Of course not! Do I want you to say that TFA is a bad movie? No way! Love it with all your heart BespinMinersUnion1138 as there is nothing more fun than enjoying what you love but what sometimes bothers me is that TFA fans seem to think they are going to loose a part of their manhood by accepting that Rey was an overpowered Mary Sue. Have you ever seen some Steven Seagal movies? I love many of his movies with passion most of all many of his first movies like Above the Law, Hard to Kill, Marked for Death, Out for Justice, Under Siege ect and nothing you can say will make me love those movies less than I do but is Steven Seagal a Mary Sue? Hell yes he is! The guy is almost perfect and flawless in everything he does and he can single handedly take on an army if need to be. I accept these flaws in the stories because they are obvious and no matter what I can come up with to try to deny it, the guy is just a Mary Sue big time.

That's were I don't see eye to eye with many TFA fans. Many of them can't accept that TFA has alot of flaws and they want to try to make all of those who think otherwise to be the ones who are wrong. I loved the SW special editions but did I blindy defend the CGI Jabba from ANH? Hell no! The guy looked awful! Did I like Greedo shooting first, the Yub Nub song change or Hayden Christensen being added to ROTJ? That sucked! And yet I still love the special editions while I admit they have flaws. Same goes for the PT that I love as much as the OT. Jar Jar sucked, that first CGI Yoda was nightmare fuel, I disliked the concept of Midichlorians, didn't like how the Jedi sometimes acted like self centered dweebs instead of the heroic knights that Ben Kenobi mentioned in the OT ect. I love the PT but I'm not blind to it's flaws either but can you say the same about TFA without trying to defend and justify each and every aspect no matter how bad or obvious it is?

That doesn't make you or any other person that loves TFA much less of a fan. It simply goes to show that you love the movie yet are not blindly trying to make it into something flawless.

 

Is there any proof of this whatsoever or is this just a theory/conjuncture?

 

Are you really going to let that line make you not like Episode 8 or the future movies? You do know that quote is taken out of context and has more to it than what is said in the trailer? We don't know when or where that quote is said in the movie or if it even makes it into the movie. It's really silly that you going to not like the future of Star Wars movies based on a quote without knowing the context behind it.

 

Just general thinking

 

I think I've seen the opposite myself.
Differn't strokes for differn't folks

 

Of course not Deadmanwalkin009. A simple line is not going to keep me away from SW. As you said so yourself, that line may not even make it into the movie as RO clearly showed us how a bunch of things in the trailer never hit the big screen. My comment is based on everything I am already seeing that I don't like. I will never say that the future of SW sucks ect ect because I love SW and I have high hopes that Disney will eventually get it right. While I'm not a big fan of TFA, I'm rooting for Episode 8 and I still have high hopes that this movie will be it's own thing and not a cheap rehash off TESB.

My fear is that Disney may indeed take the Jedi and ruin the way Lucas made it just so they can give us whatever crazy version they want. If it had been just that line in the trailer I wouldn't have minded at all but it wasn't until I heard Mark Hamill himself say that apart that there were things that he really didn't like about TFA that he was surprised at how Rian Johnson saw Luke as a character that I got worried. When the very Jedi Master of the story says he's not in with how the new director sees his character, believe me, I can't help but be a teeny weeny bit worried.