1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

The most epic Gary Stu/Mary Sue moment in SW

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Lock_S_Foils, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,391
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,625
    Ratings:
    +78,184 / 26 / -13
    i'm sick and tired of the use of the 'mary/gary' term on these boards.

    it causes arguments and offence. it is used to cause offence, and i don't care what anybody says to the contrary.. i don't care if some think it's a harmless term.

    ppl are lashing out on this forum lately, and this stupid nasty term is being used to provoke and upset passionate fans.


    "there has been an awakening.. have you felt it". that's Snoke talking about Rey during TFA... Kylo felt it to. that's 2 dark siders feeling a disturbance in the force.. the distubance being Rey.
    "The Force Awakens"... they named a whole movie on what happens to Rey.
    "Something inside me has always been there, but now it's awake and I need help." - Rey in TLJ.
    "I've seen this raw strength only once before in Ben Solo. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now." - Luke talking about Rey in TLJ.
    "Oh, read them, have you? Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess." - Yoda in TLJ.

    another term i absolutely despise when discussing someone... is 'nobody'. it's horrible, and to be frank.. it's 10 kinds of wrong. everyone is important. Luke's father doesn't make him a 'somebody'.

    is Anakin 'important' and not a 'nobody' because the force chose him?

    we are only 2/3 of the way through Rey's story, and we know without question.. that Rey is important. I don't care what Ben said to her about her parents.. it might be the truth, but either that wasn't true and she has force sensitive parents OR the force has chosen her in a similar way to how it chose Anakin.

    the blanks haven't been filled in yet.. but they will be, trust me.

    Rey is not, and never has been a 'nobody'. Rey is not a 'Mrs Freak' (or Mary Sue if you prefer.. both equally insulting).

    everyone should go watch ROTS and ROTJ again and realize how much we learned about Luke and Anakin in those 2 films.. we need to wait for this saga to end before throwing names and judgments around.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 7
    • Like Like x 2
  2. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    Well I'm happy if Rey got a good backstory which gives her credibility to do what she does.

    However Calling Anakin/Luke "Gary Stu's" is ignorance of knowledge. It doesn't matter, child or not, a well written backstory (being Chosen by the Force) completely justified the writing.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2018 ---
    Being the "Chosen One" son is enough to justify any ability. The old adage stays true "Like Father like Son".

    Don't make me laugh and say he was not a well written character. He was written across a 6 part arc, something JJ or Risk have neither done. His acting was correct, from a hopeful pure young boy to an older more emotional driven adult.

    I don't care what your opinion is, however wrong, Anakin / Darth Vader is endeared by many a fan.

    It is so strange SW was taken over by critics of Anakin, The PT, anf the OT changes. What drew people like you to SW in the first place? Was it to complain enough so the new movies would be your SW? How selfish and childish if it was.

    Like complaining about Jar Jar, a CHILDS character. Seriously? Was the overall plot of Anakin abandoned because of Jar Jar? Did Jar Jar who thrilled little children really detract you from the main plot?

    It's the selfish syndrome "This is my SW and to heck with children" which is the Sith way and what people use against the Prequels in general to bash it, when there really isn't anything tangible to bash.

    Not well written indeed.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2018 ---
    More power to her if she has a supporting backstory.

    Really my main point is calling Anakin or Luke "Gary Stu's" is ignorance of the backstory that gives them credibility.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2018 ---
    Furthermore the ST is riddled with inconsistency more than any other trilogy thus far, even intentional!

    And you have the gall to say Anakin was not well written. Did Anakin not get enough angry face for you when he killed the kids?

    Or perhaps his dislike of sand is such a HUGE deal making a statement about something he grew up around his whole life.

    I find PT haters all lack one thing, maturity, when it comes to deciphering good writing and proper backstories which support the overall trilogy.
     
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  3. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,049
    Ratings:
    +10,268 / 461 / -131
    BB8 knocking out and tying Canto Bight policemen ...
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    3,025
    Likes Received:
    46,508
    Trophy Points:
    171,477
    Credits:
    14,407
    Ratings:
    +53,150 / 9 / -3
    @YubNubBub, you've been getting a bit too personal here with your arguments. It's time to drop this and move on, please and thank you.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Trophy Points:
    10,767
    Credits:
    3,448
    Ratings:
    +3,893 / 28 / -4
    Unpopular opinion, R2 is the OG Gary Stu especially in Episode 3. What can he not do? How many times he saves the day? (r2-d2)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  6. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    I have not engaged in any personal attacks, sarcasm yes, personal attacks no. I didn't know sarcasm was against the rules, considering they were sarcastic first and I responded in a like manner.

    I was not aware that I was violating any rule laying out my arguments in defense of the PT and OT writing.

    However, at your command, I will cease and desist.
     
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    101,729
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,807
    Ratings:
    +110,139 / 167 / -32
    @YubNubBub, chill out, dude. Just chill out. I'm not here to fight. Btw I wasn't sarcastic. Anakin is far from being a well written character. At least IMO of course. This whole chosen one stuff damaged his character alot. If George really wanted to implement this topic, then he should have actually focused on it and not just put it out there. He just made him the chosen one to make him special, but this wasn't even necessary in the first place. He was already special. He's Darth freaking Vader.

    Btw saying that I'm criticizing Anakin or the PT just for making the ST look better is utter nonsense. All three trilogies have its ups and downs. Is the ST perfect? No, it's definitely not perfect. Especially not TLJ. But I can choose and pick what I like and embrace it. That's called "having a personal opinion" and IMO Kylo Ren is the depiction of Anakin we should have get in the PT, because Kylo Ren is actually a well written character.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  8. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I don't like the word "mansplain" (it is derogatory to a single gender, only reason the PC police are not on that one is because men don't get defense from the PC police) but I don't go around telling people not to use it. It's a word with a meaning, and though the use of the word can be twisted to mean different things, I always found the word, it's intent and it's usage, say more about the people who are using it than the word itself.

    The term Mary Sue is derogatory to the character it portrays. That's kind of the point. It depicts a character who is exaggerated to ridiculous proportions. We all have a different line to what we consider ridiculous. I think Mary Sues are an accepted trope in certain films and entertainment, but many SW fans take exception to having one in this universe. I think that's fair since they usually diminish the world their in and make it harder for some to get absorbed in it, or to suspend their disbelief. Fantasy/Sci-Fi always has subject matter that threaten to pull us out of the experience, adding characterization that does this is not a good thing to those fans who see exaggerated characters.

    Other terms don't quite do justice to the meaning. Examples would be overpowered (OP), plot armor, pet character, wish fulfillment character among others. But they don't quite encompass what Mary Sue means, though a Mary Sue would have many traits of all of those, and those would have traits of Mary Sue characters. I'm not talking about gender here, but I'm talking about a character so overpowered, with events going their way so often and in such ways that it leads many to dislike the character on those grounds (not the acting or actor/actress). It's the way the character is written that annoys and has us unable to suspend our disbelief.

    Some seem to want to make a case that Mary Sue should not be used in the same way that the "N" word shouldn't be used. But there's a huge difference. As much as Mary Sue is derogatory to a character, it's derogatory to a single character, not to the whole of a gender/race/sexual orientation. Now I can get someone saying they don't like the term because it's not accurate (it's not, it's very broad and the definition is very subjective from person to person), but complaining about it due to the fact someone dislike a favorite character being depicted that way is not reason for everyone to have to stop using the term. I think it's a fair discussion to have, just don't get personal about it.

    I think there needs to have room to disagree, and Mary Sue is nuanced in such a way that it makes it it's own meaning. It's really no different than terms like Jumping the Shark and such. They're nuanced and they're subjective.

    As for nobody, I get your sentiment, but personally I think it's being over sensitive. Rarely do I see Rey being termed as a "nobody" in a derogatory way. The Skywalkers have spanned most of SW and all of the movies so far, they are royalty for all intents and purposes. As are the rest of the main characters (Kenobi, Palpatine, ect...). I don't think it's anyone's intent to call Rey a nobody to demean her. It's way to say she isn't linked to the other big family names we are familiar with in the GFFA. No more, no less.

    I don't like people trying to police my opinion, or to minimize it by demeaning the terminology I'm using by insinuating that I'm sexist, racist, elitist or a bigot of some kind. I would suggest that if you don't like a term or word, don't use it, don't add to a thread that uses it in the title or the initial post. I think most people will try to be respectful of your wishes, as long as they don't feel you're not using it as a means to "win" an argument.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    735
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,687
    Ratings:
    +1,926 / 126 / -51
    No, it really isn't.

    When we meet Anakin, we already see he is an expert in podracing. Podracing and piloting can be assumed to have many of the same skillset. Anakin gets a lesson in piloting from Ric Olie who remarks what a quick learner Anakin is. Since we join that conversation in progress, we can assume it lasted longer than merely what we saw on screen. Finally, Anakin has a highly skilled astromech droid in that Naboo Starfighter with him. Yeah he gets a little lucky with "punching buttons" but the idea that Anakin can fly a Starfighter - and fly it quite well - is not far fetched given what we know about the character.

    But with Rey? She is a dirt poor scavenger living in the rusted out remains of an AT-AT. There is no evidence that she knows the first thing about flying until she has to fly the Falcon, at which point she handles it with no co-pilot as well as (or better than) Han or Lando ever did with a co-pilot. There is no logical reason established in the movie why she should even know how to fly, let alone fly a freighter and do it so well. She just Mary Sue's it, like she does everything else.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    80,322
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,869
    Ratings:
    +85,070 / 84 / -31
    A pod-racer is no different then what Rey drives at the beginning. She knows enough that the Falcon is garbage. The only thing she doesn't know is that It's the Falcon. It's more then just an easter egg line. She probably grew up with Unkar Plutt; which he "had" the Falcon. Also, we don't know what her early life was like. She was dropped of by a ship. Not sure what having R2 has to do make Anakin a better pilot. Were just told that Luke was a great pilot we didn't see him train or anything like that. He can also bullseye womp rats in his t16 back home. There not much bigger then 2 meters. Yet we didn't see him train.
     
    #30 Andrew Waples, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    19,665
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,025
    Ratings:
    +24,068 / 64 / -37
    Ah yes, love the paragraphs long disertations on how this is wrong, @Lock_S_Foils. ;)

    To be honest, the destruction of the control ship wasn't even my biggest complaint with the scene. It was the lead up to it, with Anakin "hiding" in a cockpit, accidentally starting it, accidentally figuring out how to close the cockpit, accidentally taking out droidekas, and having the autopilot randomly take him directly to the battle (out of the literally infinite directions in space he could've gone).
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 5
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    735
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,687
    Ratings:
    +1,926 / 126 / -51
    [​IMG]

    The rest of your post proves the point I am making. With Rey, you have to play make believe and assume all sorts of the things the movie doesn't bother establishing. You're just pulling things out of thin air to come up with a possible explanation.
     
    #32 Wolfpack, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I'm sorry, but....what is the purpose of this thread, besides trying to annoy people?
     
    • Wise Wise x 4
  14. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Posts:
    237
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    7,367
    Credits:
    926
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 6 / -5
    Ohhhhh...this one?
    Im calling you gary-sue-foils from now on. :D

    It's just a myth. Mumbo jumbo. Simple tricks and nonsense.
    Move along...

    :p
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    80,322
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,869
    Ratings:
    +85,070 / 84 / -31
    With Rey you have to "play make believe". You do understand it's a movie right? Everything is made up...
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Posts:
    237
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    7,367
    Credits:
    926
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 6 / -5
    Didn't you hear? Rey is actually based on JJ's never firgotten love Debbie and all you see in st actually happened in Fresno during 80ties.
    #makebelieve
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    735
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,687
    Ratings:
    +1,926 / 126 / -51
    Apparently you did not understand the point I was making, so please let me clarify:

    Yes, everything is "made up" but it should not be left to the viewers to make things up completely out of thin air to explain major plot elements. A good work of fiction should explain its own majr plot elements. Duh.

    There is a difference between a movie establishing a character's background versus you completely making things up out of thin air. Good writing involves establishing characters. We, the viewers, are given insights regarding their knowledge, their abilities, etc. The viewer may infer a great many things. However, there is nothing which establishes Rey's ability to fly the Millennium Falcon at a ridiculously expert level (without a co-pilot, no less). She grew up in extreme poverty and can barely afford her daily rations. We know that has been the only life she has known since she was a very small girl.

    With Anakin, as with Luke, the movies establish reason behind their piloting abilities. Sure there's "plot armor" thrown in during their movies' respective climaxes, but nothing even remotely as ridiculous as Rey going from complete nobody who can barely afford to feed herself to Han Solo level piloting ability.
     
  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    19,665
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,025
    Ratings:
    +24,068 / 64 / -37
    • Like Like x 2
  19. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Trophy Points:
    10,767
    Credits:
    3,448
    Ratings:
    +3,893 / 28 / -4
    I love how you ignore her quote:

    Rey: I've flown some ships, but I've never left the planet.

    The type of ship is irreverent and doesn't matter. Red Leader originally didn't think Luke couldn't handle an X-Wing until Biggs vouched for him. Rey's quote is enough information saying that she knows how to fly. Why do people think only Han, Lando and Chewie are the only ones who can fly the Falcon? It's not like the ship would be super hard to fly in SW universe. Not like she's piloting some super cruiser or a star destroyer or something. Also it was shown briefly that Leia was flying the Falcon in ESB when Chewie and Lando was trying to fix the hyper drive. There was no way they would have it on auto pilot when being pursued by tie fighters, it is possible to fly the Falcon solo. A 747 in real life can be piloted by single pilot in an emergency if needed, so it's not far fetched to believe that the Falcon can be piloted with one person.
     
    #39 deadmanwalkin009, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    5,812
    Trophy Points:
    15,317
    Credits:
    5,820
    Ratings:
    +8,755 / 34 / -9
    Besides releasing the rathtars though, which of Rey’s successes were a product of accident?

    Everyone seems to have their own special idea of what a Mary Sue is. My understanding was that they were someone that inexplicably excelled at every skill that was necessary for the story. They’re inordinately capable. Anakin, in TPM, doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. Before his one win, he never even finished a podrace before. He’s no starpilot. He’s not knowingly capable in that cockpit. The little moron is just pushing buttons.

    Logically, he and his bowl cut should have been blasted straight away. He only survives by sheer, reason breaking luck. Or the Force or whatever. Basically, itty bitty Annie is too incompetent to be a Mary Sue . . . in my opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page