1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

The Official Midway Movie (2019 version) Thread

Discussion in 'Film' started by Lock_S_Foils, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    53,704
    Trophy Points:
    169,407
    Credits:
    37,186
    Ratings:
    +56,667 / 39 / -38
    Let's talk about Roland Emmerich's new movie covering one of the most pivotal battles of WWII - Midway. I've done a lot of reading on WWII especially this battle. I must admit I was skeptical when I saw this was coming out as we've been let down before (the horribly inaccurate Pearl Harbor). I am happy to say I was wrong....Midway is a really great movie and tries hard to stay accurate, while at the same time showing what Navy Dive Bomber pilots had to do to get to the target.



    bomb on japanese carrier.JPG
    diving on carrier.JPG
    75258637_2486839231363369_8562498907848835072_n.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  2. Lazarus Dei

    Lazarus Dei Tree Dodger Extraordinaire
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Posts:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    19,661
    Trophy Points:
    146,277
    Credits:
    11,943
    Ratings:
    +22,695 / 6 / -0
    Man, I should have placed a wager in the Casino that you'd be the one to launch a thread on this movie @Lock_S_Foils :D

    Definitely on my list to watch when it reaches the cinema near me!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Posts:
    791
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Trophy Points:
    95,317
    Credits:
    12,353
    Ratings:
    +14,552 / 2 / -0
    So I've seen the film and can safely say it's at least better than the 1970's film. Quite a few bits in the film were well researched and surprised me. That said it's nowhere near perfect, and has a multitude of issues.

    Pedantic list of nitpicks coming from an armchair historian -

    The good:
    • Casting for the Japanese admirals Yamamoto, Nagumo & Yamaguchi are all on point, and look like their real world counterparts to such a degree that it's almost eerie.
    • Shows the disagreements between Admiral Nagumo and Yamamoto.
    • The film actually shows the internal political squabbling between the Imperial Japanese Army & Navy as they had very different ideas on military strategy as Japan sought to expand its influence in Asia and often had to compete for resources.
    • The film actually bothered to have Admiral Husband Kimmel in it.
    • Woody Harrelson, though an odd choice for the role, cared enough to actually visit my workplace many months back to research his role as Admiral Chester Nimitz, and it shows. He definitely put effort into it.
    • Dennis Quaid as Admiral "Bull" Halsey is spot on.
    • Set and costume design is mostly accurate and nicely detailed.
    • Aircraft function as they should, no nonsensical "Red Tails"-style antics that defy the laws of aerodynamics, or physics for that matter...
    • Includes the Doolittle raid and the raiders' rescue in China by pro-Kuomintang forces.
    • Includes and highlights the efforts of Joe Rochefort and station HYPO in the decryption and interpretation of Japanese communications.
    • Destruction of the first Japanese carriers is mostly true to life.
    • Scene in which the carrier Hiryu is being scuttled is not only true, but is practically an on-screen version of the following painting:[​IMG]
    • Shows Nagumo's indecisiveness during the battle that turns the carrier Akagi into a massive powder keg.
    The bad:
    • Ed Skrein as Dick Best is terrible. Accent is over exaggerated and he comes off as completely unlikable. Writers clearly tried to make him the protagonist, of sorts, but it doesn't work for a film like this.
    • "Homefront" scenes are pointless and go nowhere. Honestly, these should've been cut.
    • Incorrect statements regarding US Navy dive bomber philosophies are made in the film. The US was among the early adopters of Dive Bombing as a concept, and knew all too well their importance based not only on their own experiences but observations of Japanese, German & British military operations in the Pacific, Western Europe & the Mediterranean respectively.
    • Nimitz knew of station HYPO and had quite a fair degree of confidence in them.
    • Amount of pessimism regarding the US' chances against Japan is exaggerated. By the time Midway took place the US had already successfully thwarted the planned Japanese invasion of Port Moresby at the Battle of the Coral Sea.
    • Difference of ship composition and aircraft numbers is greatly exaggerated. Though the Japanese did have 2 Battleships and 2 Heavy Cruisers that actually took part in the Battle of Midway, the US had more aircraft (US had 233 carrier-based and 127 land-based aircraft vs. 248 carrier-based aircraft and 16 floatplanes for Japan) as well as more Destroyers and up to 16 Submarines.
    • Complete lack of representation of US Navy fighter aircraft, which provided cover for the bomber craft as well as intercepting Japanese fighters and bombers.
    • Stupid amounts of prevalence of the then greatly out-dated TBD Destroyer torpedo bomber that, by 1942, was being actively pulled from service and had largely been replaced by TBM Avengers.
    • Perpetuates the myth of George Gay being the sole survivor of Torpedo Squadron 8. There were 2 others that survived.
    • Japanese naval bombers operating in in-land China.
    • Does not show the Japanese aircraft that intercepted Doolittle's B-25 squadron during their raid over Tokyo.
    • "tHiS iS fOr PeArL hArBoR"
    • No, one man did not single handedly take out a Japanese carrier.
    • Number of aircraft attacking Japanese carriers obscenely low, probably for "dramatic effect".
    • CGI is the equivalent of those CGI trailers for crappy Chinese/Korean FPS games.
    • SBD Dauntless takes 3 full bursts of Japanese 7.62 & 20mm HE rounds with only a few small dents. Wat.
    • Japanese A6M2 Reisens (aka Zeroes) never had pure white camo schemes.
    Overall I'd say its about on par with the movie Fury in regards to authenticity/accuracy, but it's nowhere near the level of films such as Tora! Tora! Tora! or A Bridge Too Far. Solid 6/10.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    53,704
    Trophy Points:
    169,407
    Credits:
    37,186
    Ratings:
    +56,667 / 39 / -38
    Agree with all your good points.....

    For your bad points, not sure what you mean by "prevalence of TBD Devastator (you called them destroyers)" - they were the torpedo bombers of the period and were used off the carriers in the battle. As far as the pessimism about our chances I think that is covered pretty well in Lord's "Incredible Victory". Totally agree about the lack of F4F's , glaring oversight and not sure why they were left out. I really wanted to see Jimmie Thach and Fighing-3 from the Yorktown.

    And Tora! Tora! Tora! had an awful lot of stock footage of aircraft, if I remember correctly many of the shots were of aircraft not introduced until later in the War like Corsairs and Helldivers. Also I believe they pulled the tried and true T-6 Texan stand-in as Zeros (done many times in other movies).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Posts:
    791
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Trophy Points:
    95,317
    Credits:
    12,353
    Ratings:
    +14,552 / 2 / -0
    Appreciate the correction there, they were called Devastators. Destroyers were another torpedo bomber. At any rate, by the time the Battle of Midway took place the Navy had been pulling TBM's from service. However TBD's are the only carrier-born torpedo bombers shown throughout the entire film. Some were still in active service, but not to the point that they made up the entirety of the Navy's torpedo bombers at that point.

    For the first part, I think you're confusing Tora! Tora! Tora! for Midway. The former predominantly used actual aircraft and used miniatures for their effects. The latter was the one notorious for reusing footage from Tora! Tora! Tora! in addition to Navy archival footage, the most hilarious bit being when an SBD changes into an SB2C Helldiver shortly before crashing.

    And yes, they did take a bunch of Texans and attempt to make them look like Zeroes. However, given the extreme shortage of surviving flyable examples (there's maybe 1 or 2 of them flying, at best) this can be forgiven.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  6. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras Jedi General
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Posts:
    3,873
    Likes Received:
    54,785
    Trophy Points:
    169,977
    Credits:
    26,866
    Ratings:
    +58,276 / 13 / -5
    @Lock_S_Foils @TK-1204 Thanks for all this wonderful historical insight.which I'm sure will.make the film that much more enjoyable when I finally get around to seeing it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    53,704
    Trophy Points:
    169,407
    Credits:
    37,186
    Ratings:
    +56,667 / 39 / -38
    Great points @TK-1204 .... concur with you. I had never heard of two other members of Torpedo-8 surviving so I did some research and found a USNI article on the one avenger from T-8 that made it back to Midway.

    So let’s talk other movies about WWII - how about Emmerich taking on TAFFY-3 at Leyte Gulf? Have you read "For Crew and Country" @TK-1204 ?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    53,704
    Trophy Points:
    169,407
    Credits:
    37,186
    Ratings:
    +56,667 / 39 / -38
    @TK-1204 One thing I did not know about this movie was focusing on Dick Best and McClusky. What are your thoughts on that? I would rather have preferred an overall look at the battle, following the key squadron leaders such as Jimmie Thach (Fighting-3 from the Yorktown - got 3 ZERO kills during the battle in a freaking F4F Wildcat), Max Leslie (Bombing-3 from Yorktown), Lem Massey (Torpedo-3 from Yorktown) or even John Waldron from Torpedo-8. In Lord's book he covers the battle evenly across all the squadrons.

    Not sure this would have been possible in the new movie, maybe with their name/squadron subtitle like they did in the old movie....
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Posts:
    791
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Trophy Points:
    95,317
    Credits:
    12,353
    Ratings:
    +14,552 / 2 / -0
    I've had "Last Stand of the Tincan Sailors" on my reading list for a while, and at this point I have no excuse not to finish it. And honestly I wouldn't mind seeing something like this done, though I'm certain the film will do "Bull" Halsey no favors. :p

    I agree wholeheartedly. An overall look at the events leading to and the battle itself would've been preferred. That said, what we got in the final product wasn't bad so I can't complain too much.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    53,704
    Trophy Points:
    169,407
    Credits:
    37,186
    Ratings:
    +56,667 / 39 / -38
    I’ve read “...Tin Can Sailors” and it is great however I prefer “For Crew and Country”, that focuses solely on the Sammie B. Goes all the way from forming the crew, picking up the brand new ship from the navy yard, sea trials, and their journey to the Pacific
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    53,704
    Trophy Points:
    169,407
    Credits:
    37,186
    Ratings:
    +56,667 / 39 / -38
    Enough of this piston engined talk....time to bring in the F-14s vs those Zeros.....at the 2:36 mark it gets REAL for the Zero pilots!

     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page