1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPECULATION THE OFFICIAL SNOKE DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by jtobiska, May 28, 2015.

?

What's the deal with Snoke in TFA?

  1. Snoke is the character's real name

    103 vote(s)
    26.8%
  2. Snoke is a title like 'Darth'

    6 vote(s)
    1.6%
  3. Snoke is a pseudonym and his true identity is not revealed

    229 vote(s)
    59.5%
  4. Snoke is a pseudonym and his true identity is revealed

    47 vote(s)
    12.2%
  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,295
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,738
    Ratings:
    +19,243 / 799 / -292
    Lol, I did back it up.
    Read the novel.
    But if you want direct proof watch a film called The Force Awakens. It's a Star Wars film about the Force AWAKENING and a couple of Force sensitive baddies sensing that.

    "There has been an AWAKENING, have you FELT it?".
     
    #4221 master_shaitan, Feb 13, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,413
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,954
    Ratings:
    +157,742 / 65 / -7
    @timonder, @master_shaitan: to be fair, the novel doesn't say it's Snoke talking to her.

    but it is heavily heavily implied throughout the book that Snoke knows the Force and we know for a fact that he's trained Kylo Ren in some aspects of it.

    i would say the fact that he has sensed the awakening is the most obvious clue.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Empire Jo

    Empire Jo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Posts:
    482
    Likes Received:
    3,128
    Trophy Points:
    12,592
    Credits:
    3,861
    Ratings:
    +3,789 / 5 / -1
    I saw the Top 5 Kylo itunes thing on the other page, and because I'm bored and my brain must ocupy itself I thought I'd share the list I came up for Snoke.

    So Snokes most popular itunes list:

    1) Red Right Hand - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds

    2) Every Breath You Take - The Police

    3) Weapon of Choice - Fatboy Slim

    4) I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For - U2

    5) Bring Night - Sia

    6) New World Order - Art vs. Science

    7) I Can't Give Everything Away - David Bowie

    8) Don Giovanni - Wolfgang Amadaues Mozart

    9) United States of Eurasia - Muse

    10) I'll Get You - The Beatles
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    Ok so I've been thinking about some more "loose ends" here. JJ Abrams said Kylo was not a Sith

    http://www.cinemablend.com/new/J-J-...n-About-Star-Wars-Villain-Kylo-Ren-79057.html

    As best I can tell, he makes no such assertion about Snoke. It is interesting to note that Kylo Ren having been taught as a Jedi, would likely not know much about the ancient SW universe, especially with regard to Sith. So it seems reasonable to believe that knowledge comes directly from Snoke. The design of Kylo's LS as we all know is an ancient design, and it traces back to the great Scourge of Malachor. And Malachor V was once the home to a branch of the Sith called the trTrue Sith. These Sith eventually retreat back into the Unknown Space.

    And after the final defeat on Jakku, doesn't the remnant of the Galactic Empire, cease hostilities, sign a concordance, and retreat into Unknown Space? Could it be that Snoke is from the "True Sith" sect? And also it's said he trained an apprentice before Kylo. Who was that being? And given how long he's been around, why aren't Snoke's apprentices numerous and known?

    Could he really have been observing all these events from Unknown Space or has he had spies in both the Republic and the Empire all along (which explains how he knows so many intimate details about the Skywalkers and the Empire?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Original Original x 1
  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,413
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,954
    Ratings:
    +157,742 / 65 / -7
    just as an observation, Kylo Ren was taught by Luke for at least some period of time and he is the grandson of the last of the Sith. i'm not sure why he wouldn't have passing knowledge of the Sith even before running off to join Snoke full time. if Ben had Dark side proclivities or was showing signs of it, it seems like the first thing Leia or Luke might do is sit him down and say: look, there is some bad business of which you may be susceptible.

    i mean: if you don't want your kids to get burned, you teach them about fire, right?

    would that necessarily involve a deep history lesson? maybe not. but it would seem a pretty rotten family to let the poor kid learn all that incidentally on his own. for all we know it was Ben's enthusiastic interest in this history that got Leia and Han worked up about him in the first place.

    regardless, i do wonder if Snoke's tendrils were once in the Republic every bit as much as in the Empire--as you said, sort of straddling the field and watching. since we don't know how the Resistance even knows Snoke (or how Leia knew him 30 years ago), anything is possible.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    I agree that Ben has some knowledge of the dark side, I'm just referring to the knowledge of ancient light saber configurations. Given that the Sith were secretive for a very long time, there's no reason (that I can think of off hand) that Kylo would even know to look for an ancient design. Even the Sith light sabers from TPM on up have had the same basic configuration with no cross guard. I am basically making the case that the knowledge of that sword came from Snoke and there are touch points between where that old design originates, the people who might have had a hand in designing it, and Snoke himself.

    How is it that Snoke knows the Dark Side and apparently has taught Kylo skills that even other Sith haven't exhibited (i.e. freezing of matter and energy) but hasn't been trained along with the Rule of Two Sith? I conjecture that it's because he is from a different sect of Sith he developed separately away from the empire.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. King3000

    King3000 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Posts:
    285
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    3,837
    Credits:
    1,232
    Ratings:
    +973 / 31 / -47
    I don't think Snoke has taught Kylo very much at all and I don't think Snoke cares much for the Sith either. I don't think we will see Snoke with a Lightsaber of any kind either, I think he from a completely different time/place than anything we have seen pan out on screen before.

    My bet is Kylo got his Lightsaber design and alot of his Sith knowledge from Palpatines archive, we know he collected Sith/Darkside artifacts. Everything about Kylo screams self taught, salvaged, unstable etc.

    Vaders helmet was salvaged from Endor more than likely.
    The First Orders copy of the incomplete Jedi Temple map came from Empire archives. If they were able to retrieve that ancient information, makes sense Kylo gathered more information allowing him to teach himself how to construct a Lightsaber, we can probably bet the crystal inside it came from Palapatines collection or from Vaders saber too.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    I agree that Snoke doesn't seem to have any affinity for the "Rule of Two" Sith... and I recognize that the EU isn't canon, but we know there is more than one kind / sect of Sith. He could be a different kind of Sith (i.e. True Sith) and not care for Palpatine and his ilk. Heck, he may even viewed him as an obstacle to gaining power for himself.
    Jury's out on what we'll see from Snoke, if he's 7 feet tall or 50 feet, but it is possible that there won't be any light saber battles including Snoke. I honestly don't think Kylo got any of his light saber design from Palpatine (directly or indirectly). I would expect most of his personal effects went up in smoke with the Death Star 2.0 (as with Vader) But let's assume that they didn't. There is nothing that indicates that Sidious knew much about ancient Sith technology. Nor do we see it reflected in any of his apprentices (Maul, Tyrannus, Vader) none of them use ancient Sith designs. So if Kylo is collecting artifacts, most of them (it seems) would be from the Rule of Two Sith.

    As a Padawan, Kylo would have had some experience with building a light saber, I don't think he would have to be self-taught there. I'm sure some of this will be cleared up in Episode 8, but I think we are going to see that there is a long lineage from which Snoke comes, and that that lineage is as old as the Jedi and Sith, and that these things that we are seeing for the first time (cross guard light sabers, freezing of energy and matter) are due to teachings provided by Snoke.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) was born just 1 year after the Battle of Endor.

    In the TFA novel (now canon) Lea says to Han:" Snoke was watching our son all the time, from the beginning, before I even realised what was happening."

    That means Snoke was full fledged Dark Force wielder at the time of Battle of Endor, and that means during the Empire as well, and practically ,since he looks very old, during the Republic also.

    Since he is so old and jet he observed rise and fall of the Empire, since he uses Sith ways ( sith test to Kylo to kill his own father, just like Plagueis asked from Palpatine to kill his father), he is or at least was a trained Sith lord.

    However if he is Plagueis who survived Palpatine's assassination , nowone alive in the Galaxy knew or heard about him. Only Palpatine knew about Plagueis (he thought he is dead) and told the story only to Anakin.They are both dead .So indeed nowone alive in the Galaxy knows who he realy is.

    I thought alot of it and, as I already mentioned elswhere I think I decoded the nature and name of the Snoke.

    He is a mystery to the characters of new trilogy, If he is Plagueis no one alive in the galaxy ever heard about him existed.

    Maybe he introduces himself just as Supreme Leader, and Snoke could be his nickname, that was coined by others after they realised they encountered a Sith, though last Sith were destroyed at Endor and considering the Sith rule of 2, there should be no one left.

    Its his pseudonym

    Sith No One Knew Existed. SNOKE.
     
    #4229 McDiarmid, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
    • Original Original x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    Interesting acronym. Wasn't Snoke somewhere in Unknown Space during the rise and fall of the Empire? If so, I speculate again if he had spies within the Empire. Seems possible.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137


    Its hard to know where Snoke has been hiding during the events in previous films. Many people believe logic was he was hiding far away to avoid confrontation with powerfull Palpatine and his apprentices as Palpatine always in any time additionaly secured himself with one very powerful apprentice (Maul, Dooku, Vader),so Snoke would probabaly loose confrontation with the two.

    Still, the Palpatine, by using skills he learned from his master Plagueis, was able to sit in his Chancelor chair few street blocks from Main Jedi Temple on Coruscant without been detected for years. So Snoke if he had skills of the Sith ( and we now 99 % can be sure he was a trained Sith ) had same if not greater knowledge than Palpatine , that means ability to cloak himself .
     
    #4231 McDiarmid, Feb 25, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Posts:
    22,073
    Likes Received:
    101,677
    Trophy Points:
    176,317
    Credits:
    48,344
    Ratings:
    +115,549 / 340 / -131
    Nice list.
     
  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    ..great book, unfortunately not canon anymore....


    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Empire Jo

    Empire Jo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Posts:
    482
    Likes Received:
    3,128
    Trophy Points:
    12,592
    Credits:
    3,861
    Ratings:
    +3,789 / 5 / -1

    Sad, but true.

    However, Tarkin is cannon isn't it? And in Tarkin Plageuis is confirmed to be Palpys Sith Master, and that he was working on the life/death thing. Palps is also confirmed to have Plags old droid, One One Four Dee, and Palps was also investigating the same thing.

    Just a by the way thing, and I haven't fully considered it in depth yet, but I wonder about the metaphor in regards to the scene where Tarkin talks about his final test at the Carrion Spike with the Veermoks to Vader, and he refers to Palps as 'the Pretender'. I wonder if the Veermoks thing, where the 2 most powerful leading group members were killed and then the group left for regions unknown, could be a foreshadowing of what happened to the Empire after it's two most powerful leaders were killed.... There's a lot of layers to sift through in regards to that passage.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  15. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    Here is another crazy thought. What if Anakin and Snoke are Force Twins/half brothers? I know I know that's insane right? But work with me for just a second. What if Snoke is a Vergence too (i.e. there was no father) and is called into existence by a female (of whatever race/species) and the Force at the same time as Darth Vader? What if for the Force to be balanced there was supposed to be a child born with more light than dark, and another born with more dark than light, and their existences were meant to balance each other?

    Would that make Snoke old enough to have been around to see the rise and the fall of the Empire per the descriptions of his character? Would that explain his preoccupation with Kylo having both a dark and light side? What are the potential holes in this theory?

    How does Kylo end up with a LS of ancient design if Snoke himself isn't ancient?
    If Snoke is only the same as Vader, how does he acquire the Force Knowledge he has? We know who teaches Vader, who teaches Snoke?

    What do you all think?
     
  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,413
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,954
    Ratings:
    +157,742 / 65 / -7
    i don't know about the vergence, but i do agree there's something to this bit of business that i think gets overlooked. and it's why i have reservations about Snoke being straight-up Sith. i can't shake the feeling that if Snoke is ancient, he may even predate Jedi and Sith. the theme of balance in TFA is very deliberate: no one seems to be trying to tip the scales particularly. the goal strikes me as controlling all of the Force. not just one aspect.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    You know what's interesting? I can't seem to think of many exclusively light side or dark side capabilities featured in actual canonical films.

    For the Dark Side we have: Force Lightning, Force Clouding, and now Matter and Energy Freezing
    For the Light Side we have: Jedi Mind Influence (i.e. Trick), Tutaminis (i.e. absorbing Force Lightning), and now Psychometry

    A lot of the rest seems to be common practice, force push, force pull, force grip, precognition, competent LS usage. So would Snoke be going through all this trouble to create "Sedi" or "Jith" just to grab a handful of capabilities? Or are there more capabilities that they just haven't exhibited in the movies that they plan to make canon?

    I don't know. Interesting theory.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,413
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,954
    Ratings:
    +157,742 / 65 / -7
    i don't think it's about the "capabilities". not some checklist anyway. i think it's about a conccept of total power we've not seen before.

    it's maybe a silly comparison, but the only one that readily springs to mind ~ i keep going back to the Dark Crystal and how its fracture split its wise and powerful people into two groups (like the Jedi and Sith), and how the only way to bring back peace/balance was to heal the crystal. the whole: "what was sundered and undone, shall be whole, the two made one".

    i feel like that's the way they're treating the Force in TFA. could be totally bonkers, but that's my impression ~ hahaha

    i don't know why Snoke would want the Light, what he might get from it, but i suspect a Light/Dark mix must inherently have more power ~ that's basically what he suggests to Kylo Ren, and it would explain why he's let Ren founder the way he has.

    i dunno indeed. theories...
     
  19. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Posts:
    771
    Likes Received:
    1,526
    Trophy Points:
    6,317
    Credits:
    2,744
    Ratings:
    +2,668 / 14 / -1
    Pablo Hidalgo just tweeted this:




    Now, this is interesting, because in the massive Darth Plagueis thread, there has been much debate as to Snoke's possible connections with that character.

    A little while ago, I posted something attempting to address several aspects of Snoke, namely his
    • knowledge of the Dark Side
    • motivation
    • possible relationship with someone like Plagueis
    • his age and ability to remain behind the scenes and witness the birth of the Empire
    • interest in the Skywalkers

    Here is the example I ultimately provided:

    Something that stands out, when Palpatine related the legend of "Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise" to Anakin in Revenge of the Sith is this:
    • "[Plagueis] had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."
    • "[Plagueis] could save others from death, but not himself."
    I'm wondering, in the context "of ones he cared about", if Snoke (if he is not Plagueis) could be someone Plagueis cared for: the son of Plagueis?

    [Just a quick aside: it was interesting to hear a Sith speak of caring.]

    Snoke would then not be a Sith, as his father would have left (and likely renounced) the Sith after Palpatine's betrayal.

    Plagueis could have created Snoke long ago just as Plagueis might have created Anakin. Perhaps Snoke was Plagueis' first attempt, and Anakin was his later attempt thought to have been more successful.

    But, more importantly, Snoke could then have the sufficient motivation, the requisite chronology, and desired depth of back story to have remained behind the scenes, witness the rise of the Empire, and learn all the Dark Side knowledge his father would teach.

    Perhaps Plagueis did (as Yoda advised Luke to do) pass on what he had learned.

    Then we have a rather promising possibility for a new character who is still connected with Plagueis but is neither a Sith nor Plagueis himself.

    Snoke would then have the luxury of time, the broad knowledge of history of the Galactic Empire, and perhaps more importantly, because of Palpatine's betrayal of his father, the reason to allow the Empire crumble and let Palpatine's arrogance be his undoing.

    Snoke would then also have a vested interest in the Skywalker lineage and have reason to fear their return based on possible warnings from father Plagueis.

    This still does not explain Snoke's wounds, but perhaps that could be explained that he had an imperfect knowledge of the Dark Side to keep himself alive, or that his father Plagueis was no longer there to ward of the ravages of mortality.

    This could then cause Snoke to rise from the shadows, form the First Order, assemble The Knights of Ren, and act primarily out of desperation as perhaps his only hope to stay alive, possibly transfer his mind/spirit -- or at the very least to pass on his father's knowledge -- would be to lure Ben Solo to the Dark Side and use him as a conduit for that Dark Side knowledge or as a new host he could then occupy as he continued his father's quest for immortality.​


    To which I would like to append this personal disclaimer:

    As much as I'd prefer to see the Story Group take full advantage of the Darth Plagueis tale/character George Lucas (and later James Luceno) developed, linking that possibly with Snoke (and therefore binding all three trilogies and perhaps bringing them full circle if Plagueis was indeed responsible for Anakin's existence), I still believe, as I tried to show above, there are many other ways the Group could make Snoke comparably compelling within or beyond the Plagueis context.​

    So, in other words, I continue to be open-minded on this matter and simply look forward, at this point, to learning more about this character. :)

    JediMasterRobert
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    12,967
    Credits:
    4,671
    Ratings:
    +5,225 / 106 / -18
    Wow. JJ already said that Kylo wasn't a Sith, but I thought that Snoke might still be. Interesting.
     
Loading...

Share This Page