SPECULATION THE OFFICIAL SNOKE DISCUSSION THREAD

Just a thought. Perhaps Snoke wants the Light and Dark as he wants power over creation and destruction, life and death? I like to think of the Dark/Light sides of the Force along these lines, as opposed to the good/evil thing.

Btw, the Dark Crystal was up there with SW in my childhood favourites, those Skeksis sucking out the poor gelflings 'essence' always gave me the chills...

 

I just saw in this thread were someone screenshot a Pablo Hidalgo tweet confirming that neither Kylo nor Snoke were Sith. I knew JJ confirmed that the Knights of Ren weren't Sith, but there was no definitive declaration (at least that I read) that said Snoke was not a Sith. Interesting that he would hone in on the actions of a Sith to lure Ben Solo in the novelization (i.e. Snoke describing Darth Vader's moment of weakness which we have debated here as either being the moment on Bespin when he does not kill Luke, or the moment in RoTJ when Vader throws Palpatine down the power shaft). Maybe it was more about the Dark Side Force usage than the Sith philosophy that Snoke was concerned with

 

Haha, yes!

The Dark Crystal as well as Labyrinth were both favorites of mine.

They still are!

(And I have to say the "Bog of Eternal Stench" still gets me giggling )

JediMasterRobert

 

i guess i never felt like mere Sithy behavior connotes being Sith. just, like you said: Dark side stuff.

i've always questioned the Plagueis theory because it's always been my understanding from Hidalgo (or wherever--i can't even remember now) that Snoke is not Sith and he's not training Ren up to be Sith. they are a whole different animal and the movie has gone to pretty good lengths to demonstrate that (there's no kneeling, no bowing, no calling Snoke master).

even Hux just walks in uninvited, interrupting, without so much as making obeisances.

 

Snoke, Bounty Hunters, and the Han Fixation

I went to see TFA one last time in the theater last night. And some thematic beats made me ponder.

After Han and all escape the freighter, Bala-Tik, leader of the Guavian Death Gang, uses his comlink to instruct 'someone' to tell the First Order about Han and crew's escape.

Snoke in turn informs Kylo Ren and Hux about Han, et all, almost using the same phrasing Bala-Tik used. Snoke is controlling the flow of information from bounty hunters to his FO higher ups (Kylo and Hux).

What intrigues me about it is that Snoke plays it as if he's gaining insight via the force. But he's actually just getting accurate second-hand information from bounty hunters!

Bazine (another bounty hunter) also contacts 'someone' to relay Han's whereabouts to the FO while at Maz's castle.

Who is Bala-Tik and Bazine's contact that filters the info to Snoke?

Snoke is in constant contact with the very type of "traitors, murderers and thieves..." that Kylo Ren seems to despise. Does Kylo know Snoke is using bounty hunters? Could this cause a rift between he and Snoke?

Also of interest is that both Han and Leia mention Snoke by name as well. I don't really remember any other of the Resistance mentioning him.

Other than just corrupting their son, is there possibly more to Han and Leia's past interactions with Snoke?

Is Snoke fixated on Han Solo for a personal reason? He seems so insistent on Kylo taking down Han. Why doesn't Snoke tell Kylo Ren to kill both parents?

 

Great post! It had never occurred to me but now that you mention it, it's obvious!

 

i don't think Ren has any problem with bounty hunters ~ there's nothing to indicate that.
the traiters, murders, and thieves refer to Finn and his father & Chewie.
it's okay for the FO to use whatever means necessary because they feel justified in their agenda. but the Resistance, well, they're the scum.

still, you raise an interesting question about where the info is coming from if neither Hux nor Ren (his two top command people) aren't the ones directly receiving it!

i don't think he cares particularly about Han. he just sees an opportunity: Han's got BB-8, so here's a window to send Ren out to do him in.
i'm sure given the opportunity to make him kill his mother, Snoke would take it as well.
Han's only value to Snoke is that he knows Ren is conflicted about him, and that pushing Ren to kill him will perhaps effectively close a door on any chance that Han might exercise influence on Ren in the future.

also, the mean fishy-eyed fussface is just a sadistic jerk.

 

Anyone else think he could be Yupe Tashu?

Features prominently in the Aftermath trilogy as a "voice of Plapatine" in a way.

 

It he would more like Darth Sion.

 

Tashu is human, and Snoke is an alien. So probably not.

 

Here is my theory. Snoke is a celestial being, kind of like what we saw Yoda encounter in Clone Wars(others have brought this up before). He can’t be the character in Aftermath because if he witnessed Vader and Luke dueling, and had multiple apprentices, he would be very old. So Snoke is a manipulator but not like Palpatine. He is about balance of the force and seeing the way of things flowing. Think in greek mythology, the gods were always watching the way things go and occasionally intervening when they saw fit.

Well if you read books(I haven’t), Snoke likes Ren because he carries both the dark and the light.

Going off of what other people have mentioned about Snoke wanting the light and the dark to win, Snoke believes that ruling the galaxy through the dark and the light is the only way to bring order. Why?

Well what if he got carried away once, and acted through many forms, like Sauron did. One of those forms was Darth Plagueis. What if the reason he did this was because he wanted to see what being a Sith was like. So Plagueis was just an alias for him. As he was assuming the role of the ‘Sith,’ he fell into the dark path himself and created Anakin Skywalker. So kind of like the sith, Snoke, acting as Plagueis

Rather than coming back to get him, he went “oh you thought you got me but I’ve been watching.” He wanted to see what Palpatine was going to do. It was the way of things up until Vader threw the Emperor. The light side prevails. But Snoke doesn’t want the light side to win.

Having seen the dark side win(the prequels) and seeing the light side win(OT), Snoke represents the grey side.

Again, this could be stupid but going off what people have said and what Luacs has always said the sequel trilogy would explore philosophical themes of deciding between right and wrong I think this could be a neat way to wrap up the Skywalker saga. What do you guys think?

 

are you suggesting that Snoke is just another form, or avatar, of this celestial being? or is he representing himself at this point? cuz he would have had to have some sort of presence prior to TFA, otherwise Leia and Han wouldn't have known who he was (see dialog in TFA).

 

Well they know about him because of the First Order. Word gets out that a supreme leader is controlling this dudes and people start calling him snoke. It’s hard to say because of the ridiculous mystery box, I personally think Snoke is a stupid name.

Anyways, it’s possible that Snoke is an Avatar form. But I think maybe his seduction to the dark side, acting as Plagueis, did damage to his other form as well, which is why he has those scars on his face.

I’m trying to figure out a way where they tie it to the prequels and the original trilogy but also veer off into another direction that is new and unexpected.

 

The more I think about how desperate he seems to stop Luke and the Jedi from returning, the more I think he may not be as powerful as we may think. He seems almost scared of the possibility the Jedi would return. I don't know...there's so much to speculate.

I really doubt he is in Aftermath at all. I can't remember the character's name off the top of my head, but I really think the Story Group is going to go with the big reveal on the big screen. It would be cool if there was a connection to the final scene on Jakku in Aftermath: Life Debt, but I think this is something the Story Group is keeping very well under wraps.

 

Oh, good! When did that happen?

 

Excellent! Thanks man, I was hoping you would chime in here!

 

I don't buy this whole "light and dark" baloney.
Snoke is a dark sider. This has been said over and over again.
You can't be a master of light and dark. If you are in the middle then you are a master of neither disciplines.
The most powerful dark siders use hate and anger.
The most powerful light siders use love and compassion.
You can't be compassionate and selfish at the same time.
It's this conflict that weakens Kylo Ren - I suspect this is how Snoke wants to keep him - powerful enough to do his bidding but conflicted so not to challenge him.

The idea about fashioning someone from light and dark to me is about being able to absolutely determine what type of person they will turn out to be.
If you have someone who is absolutely good then it is difficult to turn them into what you want.
Likewise, if you take someone evil then you cannot determine how you want them to think - they already think their way and won't change.
Far better to take someone who is in the middle and manipulate their good and evil so you can make them what you want them to be.

For instance, Kylo Ren did love his father. But he was also bitter about him. So Snoke used that. In having Ren kill his father this will fill Ren with both self-loathing and further erode his "soul". Essentially, if you're trying to turn someone bad it is helpful if said person loves others as you can then threaten or destroy that love to cause great suffering, fear and hatred.

So for me, Snoke is no different from any other master of the Dark Side we have seen. The question is, what is end game and where the hell has he come from?

 

Well, yes, you can. A certain degree of selfishness keeps you from martyring yourself unnecessarily, and a degree of compassion keeps you from becoming insensitive to others, both good things. In fact, a balance would probably be the best way to be--if it was possible for a Force User. I don't think it's really an option once you become powerful enough, but who knows what they'll do to the lore in these movies?

For example, your average person would be able to balance these feelings. Lots of people are conflicted over their parents without having an intense need to either "be seduced by the light" or murder them away. I think the emotions of Force Sensitive individuals, especially the stronger ones, are too unstable to find a middle ground.

Unquestionably, there are Force techniques that require both sides of the Force to come together, like using a Jedi and Sith Holocron together to compel answers from the universe. Perhaps it's for something like that for which Snoke needs Kylo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 6, 2017 ---

@Pomojema , No worries, I remember the "Snoke Theory Sucks" sticky notes!

I was hoping there was something new, though. As I recall, there were still people who thought Snoke could have "once been human", and it would have been nice to definitively say no to that.