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The One Thing You Didn't Like in TLJ (For TLJ Lovers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jayson, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Juniper

    Juniper Rebelscum

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    I loved pretty much the whole movie, however this line I hate and I cringe each time I see it.

    Rey: "Master Skywalker, we need you to bring the Jedi back because Kylo Ren is strong with the dark side of the Force"

    Hate it, it's a dumb line, poorly delivered and offers nothing we/the characters don't already know.
     
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  2. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    Yeah this line doesn't make much sense. First of all, she just barely bested Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel on her own. She doesn't need Luke to stop him. Second, why isn't she saying anything about Snoke?
     
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  3. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Jedi General

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    I agree, it almost takes me out of the movie when I hear it. It’s like this exchange in Revenge of the Sith:

    Palps: Anakin, i’m depending on you...
    Ani: For what, I don’t understand. [He just says this in the middle of Palpatine’s sentence.]
    Palps: ...to be the eyes, ears, and voice of the Republic.

    Like this exchange in ROTS, the line in TLJ just feels unnatural. Like the script just wants the character to say something for no real reason

    To be fair, she was only able to stop him because he was weakened and she wasn’t holding back against him, unlike he was with her.
     
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  4. Palpatine was Framed

    Palpatine was Framed Rebel Official

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    The one thing I really disliked was the character of Holdo. I thought she was pretty flat, and the story around her kinda dragged for me. I felt precious screen time was wasted on such a two dimensional character, when I would've liked to have seen Poe have more 'adventuring' going on there.

    Anyway, to me Holdo was but a speed bump in a great Star Wars film.
     
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  5. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    Same here. I know Rose gets a lot of crap but I dislike Holdo even more.

    It does look like Poe will be doing adventuring in TROS!
     
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  6. cheewie

    cheewie Clone

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    Hello!

    Well, I think you are right in some aspects, like the fact that the viewer does not worry if Rey or Kylo are going to die, or the non-faced guards are not important characters...You are pretty right a when you say that this is not a classic Star Wars duel, but I think that´s the idea. TLJ itself is a very different movie to the other previous movies, and this fight I think is intentionally different, but it has other goals...

    1.- All the film has a message of duality, Jedi order was obsolete as they tended too much to the light side, which made that the Force rebalanced itself increasing the Dark side, the film explains that real balance it´s not full light or full dark. In the throne scene, we see blue lightsaber( that in the series is a symbol of Light side of the Force) fighting along a red lightsaber(Dark side) At this very moment(not before and not after), Rey and Kylo have the same objective. Furthermore, in the very previous scene when they are in the elevator, they tell each other that they have foreseen that the other one is going to join him/herself(Kylo assumed that Rey was going to go Dark side and Rey assumed Kylo was going to return to the light side) But in the end, for a little moment(only during the fight) they joined ``in the middle´´ of light and dark. I also think that this is an anticipation of the kind of relationship that they are going to have in TROS.

    2.- Killing Snoke, all the sudden, is already a controversial script point, you can agree with it or not. I like that he has been killed this way, it is very unexpected. What I don´t like is not knowing anything about his past or background, but I will decide if it is a mistake or not when I will watch TROS, they have to give a explanation that is important and fits in the story even when he has already dead. But if they have killed him without any opposition would have felt very easy and anticlimatic.

    3.- This fight is the chance to check out that Kylo´s skills are much higher than Rey´s. The amount of guards that he kills is bigger, and he is more skilled in his movements, Rey barely defends herself and tries to do what she can. This is more coherent than their final duel in TFA, when Rey could handle the lightsaber that she just have picked up(although Kylo was wounded and psychologically broken after killing Han).

    4.- It is different, dirty, and spectacular, and that is already a good point!

    All that said, you are right, it´s not a classic lightsaber duel, but I don´t see it as a bad thing. Luke vs Kylo fits in this kind of classic duel you say(altough its unexpected and brilliant resolution)

    And... well I cannot consider myself a TLJ lover, I think it is a very irregular movie full of amazing moments but aslo plenty of silly and ridiculous plotlines. If I had to choose...The very worst moments were Canto Bight(Finn and Rose entirely) Leia flying throught the space and almost every joke(there are two or three that are accurate)
     
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  7. bferr1972

    bferr1972 Rebel Official

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    One thing I didn't like, and it's really nit-picky: Once the First Order started firing on and hitting the cloaked Resistance transports, the pilots of those ships should've started taking evasive maneuvers, to make themselves harder to hit. Instead, they continued along the same predictable course towards Crait, which made them easy targets for First Order cannons.
     
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  8. DarthSnow

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    I'm guessing that getting planet-side as fast as possible / out of range of the cannons was probably the goal... at the same time, a little serpentine pattern probably wouldn't have hurt! Or even just spread out a bit; it appeared the FO cannons were primarily firing into the group. Were they able to target them individually? I can't remember that detail.
     
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  9. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Really the only thing I dislike is the same as TFA lack of new ships and settings that make it seem like galaxy is uninhabited, although Canto Bight does slightly change this. I hope some of the locals in TROS show society and population centers. I also hope that their are more ships in TROS that they simply havent shown us.
     
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  10. FN-3263827

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    i know i am an old dog, but the familiarity is a big part of what brought me back to Star Wars.
    i recognize this world and it's cozy like slippers.
    i agree some of it is a bit too familiar, perhaps, but i feel like for every x-wing there's a purring black command shuttle, for every Han Solo pilot/adventurer type there's a Rose Tico, and those things make me happy.

    now that Star Wars has new life, there's so much time to explore new things. i don't mind at all easing into the transition. : D
     
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  11. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    I still love the original stuff and am indeed a Star Wars old dog. Just like to see the imagination, but with elements that call back to the past. I have this case hung on my wall of mini lightsaber hilts. I really hoped to add to the collection. It disappoints me that it looks like Rey still using the same lightsaber as in TFA and TLJ. So through the whole trilogy the 1 new hilt is Kylo's.

    When I hear people talk about toy sales down I cant help to thing that on top of the fact that toy sales in general are down Star Wars toy sales are down because lack of new designs. I mean how many X-Wings, Tie Fighters, and Millennium Falcons can people really buy?
     
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  12. FN-3263827

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    i can't answer this because i have five black series Kylo Rens and seven HT stormtroopers. XD

    jokes aside, i get your point. sometimes what's "new" isn't what we want.
    i know some people want more new aliens, some want more new ships, cities, or just all of it.
    i'm pretty easy. i can feed off of Jedha for years (and they blew that gem up! ~ hahahaha).
     
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  13. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    I absolutely agree with everything here.
    I also know that there really wasn't any other option because the chiastic relationship of TLJ to AOTC (considering TLJ is chiastically linked to AOTC+ESB & TPM+ROTJ) meant that it had a requirement that it must have somewhere in it a big battle royale to mirror that of Geonosis.

    So it's really strapped for cash here since the Crait bit is mirroring the more personal ESB Vader/Luke battle.

    What is neat about the guard fight, conceptually, is that Johnson flipped the concepts around in a bow-tie like way. Geonosis' big battle royale occurred in a desert setting, while ESB's more personal battle occurred in a throne-room-looking style of close and personal space.
    Here, instead, the battle royale happens in the throne-room-looking style of close and personal space, while the personal battle occurrs in the desert-like setting.

    And as such, because, AOTC has this impersonal saber-exhibition-fest, TLJ inherently is stuck including one if it's not going to flip the middle finger to the chiastic narrative structure the main series follows.

    So, really, mostly, my issue goes back to AOTC more than anything - fully realizing that a LOT of people loved the Geonosis battle and saber-fest.

    What's odd about PT, or interesting, was how it chose to flip and mirror the OT in this regard.
    For TPM, it's flipping the throne room battle into a full three-way battle (Obi, Qui, Maul) instead of a one-on-one round-robin between three people (Emperor, Vader, Luke), and flips the focal away from the primary protagonist and antagonist to the supporting protagonists and supporting antagonist.

    Meanwhile, AOTC flips the very personal battle of ESB where the protagonist is isolated away from their supporting protagonists in squaring off from the primary antagonist, into an impersonal battle-royale where the primary protagonist is kept with the supporting protagonists but in a battle that is not with the primary antagonist, but with at most secondary antagonists and mostly faceless opponents.

    TLJ's Luke/Kylo battle is interesting in that it's a secondary protagonist against a primary antagonist at first glance, which doesn't really seem to fit into ESB or AOTC, or really any previous model, but if you look at Kylo in his own narrative since really Kylo is running both as an antagonist and protagonist due to mirroring Anakin's PT narrative, while also serving as the Vader narrative function for Rey's Luke narrative, then Kylo (as the momentary protagonist from his perspective) is picking up an ESB Luke thread (which is not common) and squaring off with his primary antagonist, who is Luke - not Rey.
    And, just like in ESB where Luke loses to Vader, Kylo loses to his Vader who is Luke.

    And there's a poetic resonance in Luke being a projection when you look at it this way, because Luke thought Vader was one thing and found him to be another at the end of the ESB fight, but this was more of an internal illusion. Whereas in TLJ, Kylo equally thought Luke was one thing and found him to be another at the end of the TLJ fight, but this was a more physical illusion.

    So I can appreciate the place for the guard fight because without it, things can become rather messy because the space created by the guard fight is the space used for the Kylo/Luke fight.

    I just ultimately wish that AOTC had found a different way of mirroring ESB than flipping "personal => impersonal" - that just seemed like a "too easy" cop-out, but I also know that Lucas (along with several fans) really, really, REALLY had always wanted to see what a big Jedi war battle looked like and it fit the chiastic structure so...two-for-one and happy George!

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #73 Jayson, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  14. TheDarkTight

    TheDarkTight Clone Commander

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    I love all of it, its a masterpiece.
     
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  15. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Sensitive

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    I love TLJ. For me the only thing I don’t like Cato Bight. It took me out of the movie and I felt like I was watching Casino Royale (even with the giant cat like creatures).

    Aside from that I love the film, even Luke disillusionment helped me as Jedi, to see one of the greatest Jedi struggle and even doubt the Jedi Way, which is so much more realistic than an idealistic Jedi who never wavers.
     
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  16. Semajj Retep

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    Terrible Comedy
    No Knights of Ren
    Killing off Snoke
    No light saber on light saber
    canot bight scenes
     
    #76 Semajj Retep, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    This is not the thread you are looking for. :)

    This thread is for those who loved TLJ to discuss that one thing that wasn't quite right for them.

    This is not the thread to just list a bunch of reasons TLJ failed to work, or you didn't like the film.

    There are plenty of threads for that.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. Semajj Retep

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    I love it still, had those little things been different it would have been epic.
     
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  19. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Ah. I am sorry that I misunderstood you. Seeing that list in isolation read differently since those are usually the token reasons for why the film is terrible.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  20. Semajj Retep

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    I could have been more specific. I really like some stuff people hate, the blue milking thing is a great, its also shot really well. I love Luke's character in this and his force projection etc etc
     
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